i would be interested to see a definition of the role of Chaplain/Padre as it stands…does one exist?
personally, and in my experience, a Sqn Padre is not present to prech to Cadets, neither are they for religious advantage, as an “impartial” staff member (by that i mean not in a blue uniform, but a familiar face) who can help support and guide a Cadet in times of trouble and on the wider aspect challenge the Cadet’s thoughts on what is meant by citizenship and the like.
certainly as a Cadet the Padre we had never gave us a surmon, but challenged our thinking, the only time he was ever releigious was during the final prayer which was fairly generic giving thanks for the Sqn/staff/facilties/opportunities rather than a religious prose
Could happen. It is certainly one of the Religions accepted by the RAF under diversity (think it is ACP2) however using ganja to help one meditate is frowned upon!
I think you have summed up the role of a padre perfectly. I will never tell any one that they have to believe what I believe. I will certainly let people know what my beliefs are and then it is up to them; they can accept it or not. It certainly doesn’t change how I deal with them. It is actually frowned upon by the ACO to ‘prosletyse’ (sorry if the word is spelt incorrectly)but being available open and approachable in any situation, by anyone is more important. But hopefully by my beliefs and the way I conduct myself I am a good role model to the squadron.
[quote=“padre2366” post=3778]Could happen. It is certainly one of the Religions accepted by the RAF under diversity (think it is ACP2) however using ganja to help one meditate is frowned upon![/quote]I thought they were all “accepted” but that ACP2 just listed some briefing points on the 7 most popular major religious categories. For more detail on a wider range of options, see Wikipedia.
[quote=“padre2366” post=3780]I think you have summed up the role of a padre perfectly. I will never tell any one that they have to believe what I believe. I will certainly let people know what my beliefs are and then it is up to them; they can accept it or not. It certainly doesn’t change how I deal with them. It is actually frowned upon by the ACO to ‘prosletyse’ (sorry if the word is spelt incorrectly)but being available open and approachable in any situation, by anyone is more important. But hopefully by my beliefs and the way I conduct myself I am a good role mode to the squadron.[/quote]Indeed, and to clarify I have no problem with the existence of padres in the ATC.
My issue is purely with the fact that cadets are effectively forced to swear an oath to a deity which they may or may not believe in.
All major religions/denominations are acceptable. There are some reservations on the forms of belief which could be classed as being a ‘cult’ I think the guideline about what is acceptable is in what is called ‘Sending Demoninations’ i.e Churches whose members who are sufficiently qualified for entry as a Commissioned Officer into any of Her Majesty’s Forces. The qualifiction for Direct Entry is that you must have been either ordained or equilalent for a period of 3 years prior to application to join. My own denomination (AoG) was accepted about 3 years ago and I believe the Salvation Army now has an Commissioned Chaplain serving at Brize.
and there is no restriction on a Padre being Christian. Although in my own experience i have not come across an example…however i have heard of a Padre being a Rabbi and i presume there must be other examples of non-Christian Padres out there…
Not at all! although it is more likely that the Chaplain will be from a Christian faith. I know several years ago, in an area where a higher proportion of cadets came from other faiths, local leaders were approached to see if anyone one to become a chaplain. The response was to allow Christian ministers to serve all the cadets as system of pastoral care was not a element of thier religious brief. Providing someone has the backing of a Church and can be vouched for (ecclesiastical consent) and has a recognised role in the church, a person does not necessarily have to be ordained.
Would you actually take administrative action in the case of a cadet pushing their own ideals? It’s lines like this that have made me consign the code of conduct to B1N as it was written by adminners for adminners. I’ve got far better things to do with my time at the squadron. But then I’ve never known a cadet be overt politically or religiously
As for the role of padre, they are not actually supposed to ‘push’ religion or religious belief at the squadron. Given that any services we attend are general attedance, the Padre is in their day job so to speak and not directly addressing anyone from the Corps. The padres I have known in their slots have spoken to cadets about ethics, morals and other such things and although they are part of the squadron, I very much regard them as guest speakers, in the way of someone the cadets don’t have a huge amount of contact with, speaking to them. My Padre’s get a good rapport and response with the cadets.
The Padre’s pastoral role is huge IMO, do we have the time do dedicate to pastoral matters, like just sitting down with a cadet and listening to woes and offer assistance. My padre has contacts with all sorts of different groups, that a troubled youngster can be pointed in the direction of, that I wouldn’t know where to start with. A teacher mate said that in her school the pastoral support is non teaching and all have worked in a youth role somewhere. She said many youngsters don’t want to talk to teachers about things and the teachers don’t really have the time.
An interesting counter-point is that as staff we can have an indirect influencing effect if we talk about things. I am sure that no one on the squadron is not aware of my political stance, musical tastes and sporting preferences, which could all influence the cadets. I don’t push it, I just don’t hide it.
Would you actually take administrative action in the case of a cadet pushing their own ideals?[/quote]
Would I personally? Hell no…But that’s what the policy says might happen for breaching the CoC.
I also feel that the whole document is laughable.
My point here though was that since that’s what HQAC are telling cadets, then they must also say the same to staff, chaplains included.
I know some chaplains who are as you describe, but I also know some chaplains who treat the ACO like an extention of their church.
I have had good and bad (in my view) experiences of Padres on my sqns. One was excellent, never brought ‘Big G’ into the debates or conversations with cadets and staff, and did a superb job regarding the pastoral care of the cadets. Conversely, another Padre insisted on giving every newly enrolled cadet a copy of the Bible, regardless of their declared faith and when questioned on this his answer was ‘well they should all be Christians anyway’, he did not last long with me!
Interestingly, the ACF’s Padres are commissioned into the Royal Army Chaplains Department and work on a County basis - should we do the same and have RAFVR(T) Padres with similar, County or even Wing-wide responsibilities? It would undoubtedly mean a cull of our existing chaplaincy cadre, but worth discussing perhaps? http://www.army.mod.uk/chaplains/23362.aspx
That sounds scarily familiar!
It’s not helped this time around by those damn Gideon’s bibles that we’re dumped on us.[/quote]
Glad it wasn’t just me! I thought I would be struck down by a thunderbolt and be cast into a life of damnation for even suggessting we did not dish them out!
[quote=“cygnus maximus” post=3835]Interestingly, the ACF’s Padres are commissioned into the Royal Army Chaplains Department and work on a County basis - should we do the same and have RAFVR(T) Padres with similar, County or even Wing-wide responsibilities? It would undoubtedly mean a cull of our existing chaplaincy cadre, but worth discussing perhaps? http://www.army.mod.uk/chaplains/23362.aspx[/quote]That’s probably because the ACF don’t really do non-uniformed staff - as we’re used to CIs, I’m not really sure what the need for uniformed padres is. That said, there could be some call for officers where a padre is in charge of other padres (eg Wing padre, etc) - tbh I don’t really know enough about the inner workings of chaplaincy to decide!
Edited to add - what’s far more interesting is that you need to be a Christian to be an ACF padre! I wonder how long that’d stand up if someone complained?
I actually do give Bibles, A Full Life Booklet and The ATC prayer to all the Cadets I enroll, actualy did one last night but when going over the enrolment with the Cadet beforehand I always ask if they object to being given the Bible. Like wise I enrolled a committed Muslim and gave him a copy of the Quaran minus the Booklet and prayer card also in the prayers afterwards I stopped the prayer short of 'in Jesus’name. I am liking what I read about how your padre’s are on the squadron and the overall grasp you have of what a Padre should be like. We do have a chain of command in the Chaplaincy : Squadron - Wing - Region and Corps each having particular supervision in the same way as Uniform use WSO’s. I know there had been a concioous effort over the years not to have Padre’s commissioned or in uniform but with our clerical Collars ATC Chaplains Polo and sweat shirts we are in fact uniformed but not in the same way. I used to think that we should wear 'blue’butgetting older and more wiser waering uniform would not make any difference. We would actually be seen to be within the ‘Chain of Command’ at Squadron level etc which may put some people off talking to us as we would not seem to be impartial. Completely different for HM Forces Chaplains as they are commissioned into the service but padre;s fist and officers second.
Surely we should be in a position to offer other belief-based books to those who wish to take one, though I don’t think Gideons would be interested in helping out
