No sob story, just a statement of fact! As I said , we all serve in different ways, but we shouldn’t consider ourselves a special case because of what we do in addition to day jobs, lots of other people have similar lifestyles!
Yep our colleagues in the ACF, SCC, Scouts, sports clubs and so on are all in the same boat as us.
But I am still intrigued about what the attraction is if people applied for commissions, presumably from outside given it’s for the same role. And how exactly the two-tier system would operate in terms of relevant authority? Would they have different levels of authority, TORs and TOS? What happens if you were a lesser one and said no to a higher one? What happens if the higher ones leave and there isn’t another one to take over, would the lesser one be expected to take over and if so why, as they obviously weren’t considered good enough before.
Sorry so many questions but I am intrigued as there isn’t as far as I’m aware a precedent in the regulars to model it on.
I ever join the ATC as a uniformed member of staff to represent the RAF in South Wales. I joined to put something back into the corps so other young people can do what I did as a child.
Back in the day the RAF looked at the ATC with benign indifference. Generally we did our thing and they did theirs, the only contact most people in the RAF had with cadets is when the spaceys filled the queues in the JRM.
Nowadays when the ATC is bigger than the RAF we are now seen as a way of keeping the RAF in the public eye; the light blue footprint. Perhaps if the RAF want the ATC to become the public face of the RAF perhaps it should invest capital into the ATC. Proper support from parent units, training, perhaps pay for turning out on parade when we represent the RAF. Uniform that is the equal of the RAF eg, Goretex instead of geltecs, PCS, tailored No1 for adult NCOs shoes for our cadets. Perhaps why we look like a shower of crap is that we can’t drive the 3 hour round trip to the clothing stores to get uniform on the Friday morning when this is the only time the ATC can visit the store.
While I am very proud to wear the uniform of the RAF and represent it why does it also think that a 14 year old cadet who has to buy their own uniform shoes in a crappy crisp packet (Jeltec) be the face of the RAF also.
[quote=“the silverback” post=8976]I ever join the ATC as a uniformed member of staff to represent the RAF in South Wales. I joined to put something back into the corps so other young people can do what I did as a child.
Back in the day the RAF looked at the ATC with benign indifference. Generally we did our thing and they did theirs, the only contact most people in the RAF had with cadets is when the spaceys filled the queues in the JRM.
Nowadays when the ATC is bigger than the RAF we are now seen as a way of keeping the RAF in the public eye; the light blue footprint. Perhaps if the RAF want the ATC to become the public face of the RAF perhaps it should invest capital into the ATC. Proper support from parent units, training, perhaps pay for turning out on parade when we represent the RAF. Uniform that is the equal of the RAF eg, Goretex instead of geltecs, PCS, tailored No1 for adult NCOs shoes for our cadets. Perhaps why we look like a shower of crap is that we can’t drive the 3 hour round trip to the clothing stores to get uniform on the Friday morning when this is the only time the ATC can visit the store.
While I am very proud to wear the uniform of the RAF and represent it why does it also think that a 14 year old cadet who has to buy their own uniform shoes in a crappy crisp packet (Jeltec) be the face of the RAF also.[/quote]
I think you have smashed right into the heart of a political issue, not an RAF issue.
I think the review will be aiming to get the NCOs in to the VR(T), but this won’t happen until they can pass a change of parliament (which will be 4 years time).
Silverback,
A couple of fascinating statements:
I take a keen interest in these matters and can find no public statements of such a major shift in policy as you describe. Could you please point me towards the source documents in order that I may fully acquaint myself with this new public profile and presentation initiative?
Thank you
exmpa
[quote]pEp
I think the review will be aiming to get the NCOs in to the VR(T), but this won’t happen until they can pass a change of parliament (which will be 4 years time)[/quote]
No change of primary or secondary legislation required (urban myth). The Armed Forces Act which is passed every 5 years will not be relevant.
…what would be required is an increase in the size of the RAFR (of which the RAFVR is part), and since the sizes/establishment/manning of the regular and reserve forces are subject to Parliamentary approval, it is this which would be required if the WO/SNCO cadre are to be re-brigaded into the RAFVR(T), and not an Act of Parliament/amendment of secondary legislation.
Parliament votes to approve the size of the armed forces as part of the annual defence estimates process, and this is the loop/timescale we would have to work towards.
Cheers
BTI
The figure I saw for early 2013 was 35650 personnel in the RAF. The last I was told we are around 33000 cadets, add in uniformed staff and I would say we are larger than our parent service.
There wouldn’t be a public statement or policy change, as that would mean needing to accept the fact and perhaps do as suggested by Silverback.
For years now we have been told at the annual COs meeting that at ‘conference’ the message is we are in many many many cases the only RAF uniform the public sees and we should where practical ensure cadets wear blue instead of green on community/public events, just to keep the RAF in the public eye.
Any updates on this topic?
Having being commissioned for some 20 years I am a little perturbed to find I may bellowing my Queens Commission for an Air Cadet one!!
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If what I am led to believe is correct then it does away with all the entitlements, you will be a scout leader.
At camp we are entitled to stay in the officers mess, under the new ATC commission we will no longer have that and will be in the same accommodation as cadets, the same mess as cadets and so on.
Now before anyone starts I know why we joined the ATC but if you are at a camp for a week the ability to go and unwind away from cadets can be a big thing.
Also the complaints procedure is getting changed (which it should) but it depends on how it is resolved would be of interest.
The way pay or what ever they call it is up for review too… One rumour was that you would only get pay if you took time off your work and HTD done away with.
So as you can see there are a lot of things that need to be addressed or clarified.
One thing though if you have a VRT commission then apperently it cannot be changed to and ATC commission so you could end up with 2 types of commission in place.
I don’t think you’d be given the same mess, you’d always have a separate one. I assume that your NCOs have a separate mess too?
I don’t foresee it changing much at all.
i think this is completely inaccurate in several regards - as a VR(T) you are not entitled to use the Mess, the Members of the Mess invite visiting Officers/civilians to use the Mess at the request of the Stn Cdr. while it might get messy if they were to refuse, they do have that right. moreover, even i don’t think HQAC would be so stupid as to try and push through some form of self-contained, everyone in together accommodation solution while on Station.
i’m not VR(T), but my concerns would be far more orientated towards pay, allowances, training, redress etc…
Angus when i did IOT you are told you are entitled to use the mess, VRT has the same entitlements as a regular towards accommodation etc. in some wings they book into the local station for a night out, beers in the mess and go home the next day (no comments) I even knew a VRT officer who stayed in the mess during the week as it was easier than traveling each day to their home from work.
With regards to joint accommodation and messing that is what is happening at valley and marham as we speak, Staff and cadets accommodated in the same location, eating in the JRM together.
Granted at Valley they can use the mess at night.
I agree with the points on pay, training etc. It could affect not just the officers but the whole corps staff.
The main point this shows is we can all say what we have heard but until the idiots upon high tell us we will just be guessing…
It would be a fair assumption to make that the stupidity and incompetence of senior personnel in this organisation knows know limit yet!
I REALLY wish I could tell you something I know about which would shock most of you but owing to various issues I can’t until it has been concluded. Which is why I am watching the changes to complaints carefully.
@big_g why is it a real problem to eat in the same cookhouse as your cadets? Are you really that high and mighty that you cannot even contemplate eating with your mere minions?
I think your missing the point I’m making. I have eaten in far worse places than a JRM and with people who don’t know about cutlery so keep biting their fingers, so compared to that eating with cadets is an improvement.
When the cadets go to dinner they should be able to relax not worry about are the staff watching us.
we should not be staying on top of each other for a full week the cadets and staff need their own space at times.
Another point is a JRM is for cpls and airman how do they feel going for dinner and seeing all these officers sitting there?? Some stations have signs at the door no SNCOs or officers allowed for meals.
Can I ask have you ever attended a weeks camp as staff??
Yes, been to plenty of camps. I have, infact, been an instructor for 10 years. I’ve never seen it as an issue.
sorry, to be clearer, no one who is not a member of the specific Mess (Officers Mess, RAF Anytown) is entitled to stay there. a non-members rank, the nature of their Commision (or not…) have no bearing whatsoever on whether they are entitled to stay in the Mess.
the Mess graciously accept guests, and in practice you book yourself in the the same way you’d book into a Premier inn - if you want to stay there, and they have room then you’re in - but that is not the legal position, which is that the Mess is open to its members and those who the Mess wishes to invite, and not open to anyone, regardless of their rank or Commision, if the Mess does not wish to invite them.
This man is correct ))()((()