Talk: Royal Air Force Air Cadet Organisation

They are fully in our Org, they just are not Air Training Corps which is part of the RAFAC / ACO

Strictly speaking the CCF have been RAF Air Cadets since the 1920s so technically we would be joining them - bring on the L/Cpls ! :rotating_light:

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You said yourself that they, don’t properly fall under wings if pillars are in place, and Headmasters and MOUs (whatever that means) mean they don’t fall nicely into the CoC

don’t get funny with me chief…

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Memorandum of understanding - it’s an agreement between the MoD & the school on how the contingent & sections are to be run, who’s responsible for what & where the authority lies.

So where a Sqn will have a Sqn warrant (an approval document) CCF will have an MoU which is more of a loose contract.

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Let’s get them Warrants eh?

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I’m sure one of our learned friends can clear this up, but I was recently told it’s only an MoU if it’s between different countries and orgs within HMG have SLAs instead.

I don’t think they are entitled as there’s no regulations permitting them. When a new section is established they amended the contract /MoU

Which makes sense as schools would not be within HMG

But they’re not other countries either.

Some of their uniforms on parades don’t look like our RAF tbf
:wink:

@Chief_Tech Has there there been another change Since I got suspended? :laughing:

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Probably - but i think it changes back at the end of the month….i think the policy is on some sort of rota :joy:

good to know

Hope my 18th lands in a pro Staff cadet month :sweat_smile:

Just to add, and propose a talking point, should Wings and/or Region become RAFAC formations instead on ATC formations if the CCF sections come under them?

Currently Wings are ATC formations. Sussex Wing ATC for example, not Sussex Wing RAFAC. This is easy to see as most Wing badges will say ATC:

However, regions I’m not so sure about anymore. I had always thought they were ATC formations. Certainly when it’s taught in first class they are part of the ATC. But, C&E recently got a new badge which says Central and East RAF air Cadets.

So are they no longer ATC entities?

Many of the other regions say ATC in their badge. I honestly think C&E may have screwed up a bit putting RAFAC in their badge…

So regions yes as the CCF Test areas have been merged with regions so regions and now RAFAC formations rather than ATC formations.

Wings I would say are ATC as CCFs were only being administered by the WExO are were not part of the Wing ATC volunteer command structure.

Central & East are now pillars so there are no longer WExOs & CCF administration is purely at region level. This is a recent change so I think CE are not wrong just new.

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I agree that the regions are now managing CCF so it is not a ATC formation.
But;
Should it not be “ROYAL AIR AORCE AIR CADETS” and not “RAF AIR CADETS”?

I’ve naturally been looking at this while compiling the official register. It would be nice to standardise it, even though both are probably fine.

I think it likely comes down to space.

Music Services also has “RAFAC” written in full, but something like Scotland & Northern Ireland Region may struggle to get the whole thing on.

It’s one of the things I want to establish so my OCD can let me sleep.

If that ever moved to wings too, something like Central & East Yorkshire Wing would likely struggle to write “RAFAC” in full too.

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To add to what @OC.1324 has already said, there is precedent for initialisms on official badges. RAFVR units (including UASs) have R.A.F.V.R. on their badges, because the full title is too long.

This seems like a massive ‘constitutional’ change that has had no real thought or announcement. The CCFs coming under regions is one thing. But actually redesignated regions from ATC formations to RAFAC formations feels like a big deal.

@OC.1324 does this mean all the regions are looking to get new badges?

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Where was the announcement that regions are no longer in the ATC?

No so much regions no longer in the ATC just that regions are no longer solely ATC

The announcement was part of keeling changes to the CCF Test areas

If they havent formally registered their region badges with college of arms it should be a simple tweak…

Sqns would still need to keep the “Air Training Corps” bit (before some people get ideas)

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I don’t recall this being the case. The change was to make Regional Commandants be responsible for CCFs in their borders. At no point have I seen something to suggest regions are no longer ATC formations. I would argue (albeit not for very long!) that ‘North Region Air Training Corps’ exists as a formation, but ‘North Region Royal Air Force Air Cadets’ does not. It may be descriptive, but it’s not the formation. And if it’s not the formation, it shouldn’t be on the badge?

Firstly, I’d argue that it doesn’t matter what it says on these badges, because they clearly aren’t authorised (and never would be in their current state).

Second, if a formation contains both ATC and CCF units, then surely by definition it is a RAFAC formation.

When Comdt ATC became Comdt Air Cadets, was there a corresponding announcement about HQAC?