Taking cadets to france in minibus

community

#1

Looking for some help. Has anybody here got experience of taking cadets to France to see old war sites (Normandy Beaches etc.) using self drive mini buses. We are sorting out the fact we need tachograph license but someone has mentioned that we can use D1 licence in UK but French law is different and the laws on Driving for hire or reward different to UK.
We are trying to organise this for this summer. would be grateful for any advice/experience.
Mike


#2

Speak to your Wing/Region/HQAC who should be able to help with advice on the rules and regs.

Don’t forget to get diplomatic clearance and define a clear route you will taking on the MEL prior to submitting your admin order.


#3

My understanding is that you need D1 to drive the minibus, but that you can’t use things like a Permit 19.

Good Call on the Diplomatic Clearence the form is on Sharepoint.


#4

If you have D1 you are golden as that is what allows you to drive a minibus. Permit 19 allows you to drive one in the UK not for hire or reward (without D1). A section 19 permit only covers journeys within the UK.


#5

White fleet service transport is exempt from requiring a taco.


#6

If you are talking service vehicles, I expect there will be special matrix tests required for France.
An MT vehicle should provide you with a France kit, such as 1:1 high-vis, yellow headlight filters and sufficient breathalysers.

Personally, I’d not bother :slight_smile:


#7

I don’t think you can take Clarity (Phoenix) vehicles abroad though.


#8

Mike, PM me with what you want to know. We do it yearly.


#9

RAFAC, I’m told, doesn’t fall within the scope for exemption.

When we took minibuses to France, Belgium and Holland several times, we had to have D1 licences for each driver and a tachograph. Drivers without full D1’s weren’t able to claim pay on the days they drove otherwise they could have fallen foul of the ‘hire and reward’ bit.

Oh, and there were some ACO drivers logs we had to complete each time we drove.

It was a lot easier when I was overseas in the RAF.

'‘Got a D1?’

‘Yes’

‘There’s a minibus - drive it’.


#10

Apart from a potential cost benefit what are the benefits of ‘doing it yourself’ vs via a specialist company?
I’ve been on bespoke ones in the past with our RBL branch and the companies seem quite happy to do this.


#11

A misapplication of the “hire or reward”, as such drivers can be paid wages. The idea is that you aren’t making money out of the service.


#12

We’re talking about those drivers who don’t hold a full D1 licence ie: grandfather rights. The drivers are being paid to drive, ergo, 'hire or reward’.


#13

Actually they are paid for the CFAV duties, but it doesn’t matter. They could be there purely as a driver and it would still be above board, as the government website states that they can be paid. The issue is what the passengers pay - it has to be not-for-profit.

It doesn’t matter though as a section 19 permit only covers the UK.


#14

Speak to OC 2359 and OC 400, both in Merseyside Wing, as they do continental trips with Cadets - enjoy!


#19

Edited post for persec. Removed posts discussing persec.


#20

There is, don’t get caught out on doing just the European Matrix Test, France one all of its own.