Just had our summer camp allocation from WHQ. Two weeks 70 places. this is less than 10% of the wings strength. Staff 19 places. Is there any point in having summer camps if cadet have to wait 10 years to guarantee a place?
It looks like time to book an army training camp and do it ourselves.
I would, its what we do - we can take the whole Sqn, and some years we take the whole Sector - we do section visits, shooting, AT and FC, cultural, social and sporting stuff, and you can almost always get visits and experiences with the other units that are there at the same time as you.
We had a couple of our very keen cadet NCO’s join the Platoon Sergeant’s Battle Course at Brecon for a couple of days one year we went to Sennybridge. Probably better than Frimly Park…
Bloody hell, that is quite shocking! I have never had the situation where I have had to tell a cadet they cannot go on an annual camp because there is no space. The target for our county is to get 50% of all cadets on camp, which roughly works out at how many can and want to go. I’m sure there must be space available somewhere, even if it is the most basic of transit camps.
What is laughable is that two or three years ago the ACMB was supposed to have a project to look into annual camps. If this is the result, massive failure.
We’ll probably get our allocations next week so this looks like it will be more fun than usual. When you get small allocations you have to be really careful about who goes with who.
The problem we have is that these centrally run camps are based around being on RAF stations and experiencing the Air Force which presents several issues.
I think Wings should be putting more efforts to run their own camps using DTE to offer Shooting & AT style weeks. (Which I find more interesting than very clever very dull men looking at machinery anyway.) But even those wings that do, people still whinge that it’s not 1970 and they can’t take 300 cadets to RAF Cold War.
Agreed but I was a cadet in the 1980s and went to Lyneham and Brize, both camps were tented. There were 60 cadets for 8 weeks in Lyneham. The first two weeks were CCF as it was still school term and the rest was for my wing. Each tent had 4 proper beds two wardrobes and 4 lockers. No need for barrack blocks.
This year the wing went to brize, Monday to Friday as they could not accommodate the cadets over the weekend and only single sex accommodation. It seems that the stations do not have the kit, time, manpower or even the inclination to set up a tented camp. God forbid the RAF will need to put up extra Airmen in an emergency if they cannot look after a group of 30 cadets.
As a cadet we went to Linton on Ouse approx 60cadets.
Went back as a member of staff same accommodation block but 35 cadets as that is max number the contract caterers are contracted to cater for apparently…
Same here camps in tents 60 or so each week, normally 4 to a tent as described during the 80s and on. In my day no more than 5 squadrons were at each camp, so a really good experience and learning experience. It is amusing that people comment about the standard of cadets and NCOs today isn’t what it was years ago. I learned my ‘trade’ as a cadet and then NCO on the sqn but then annual camp it all came together in a progressive way. You’d start as duty cadet, duty NCO, NCO i/c room, NCO i/c flight and maybe senior cadet NCO at camp. Much better way of learning than sitting in a room all day getting preached at with a bit of drill.
You could do the AT type camp but just use the RAF as a base with 60 odd cadets rather than a training area. Not unless the RAF are drastically short of suitable tents.
Over Easter and Summer more than 75% of the cadets would get opportunities to go to camp and there was no need for fillers.
Would it not be easier to book a transit camp, hopefully within an hours drive of an RAF station and then bus the cadets there for the day when they are doing things that require them to be there (if you want to go to one at all)? Most activities could be done on the transit camp.
Having looked at the camps matrix, there are certainly free slots or underused slots where other units could in theory get in.
We can’t get a catering contract for less than 70 people now. It can be an issue with weekend camps!
Realistically when are they going to have to put up extra airman? We are never going to see a WW2 type uplift.
Also it’s not just about accommodation, we could put 100 cadets in a Transit Camp, if the RAF can’t give them section visits and all that jazz it’s not an annual camp.
It would personally be more fun as blues camps bore me, I’ve run week long camps for 100+ cadets and that’s much more interesting anyway. But it shouldn’t be left to a Squadron Commander using their own initiative.
We seem to struggle with tented camps (other than RIAT) in that the staff are not prepared to support these camps, as they are often also expected to use the tented accommodation and have this believe that that they deserve a place in the mess etc.
Still no idea what camps our wing have for 2017, but not holding my breath. The future is 100% super camps, ala D&C/Aerospace but on a Wing/Region Level, with interesting & engaging programmes that may or may not include section visits to local stations.
if you want a decent camp allocation the work now falls on the volunteer staff to organise, we can no longer rely on HQAC / RAF to be able to support the majority of cadets going on camp.
If staff tented accommodation was away from the cadets it wouldn’t be as much of a problem. It’s good for staff and cadets to get time away from each other. I’ve done tented camps where staff have been in the same place and it’s not good. We never felt like we were off duty nor relaxed properly and I don’t think the cadets really relaxed either as the staff were just there. The problems extend to toilet/shower blocks which ended up with an odd timetable for staff, 18+ and ordinary cadets.
I’m not bothered about the second rate hotel that is the mess for a room, but staff and cadets should be afforded some space from each other and some privacy and not just some barrier tape and a sign.
for me, and i think many others, its rather more nuanced than that - its that tented camps, often for the reason Teflon mentions above, are hard work.
a tented camp on a interesting station (or where theres a decent off-station programme), in good weather with reasonable seperation between the staff and cadets, is good fun. a tented camp on a rubbish station with a rubbish programme, being stuck next to the cadets in the evening and so never really being off duty, and in conditions that make the Somme look like a Club-Med holiday on the other hand are not fun, in fact they are deeply tedious and very hard work.
which, sadly, do you think is the more common?
spending a week in a particularly shabby Travelodge is not the height of my year, particularly when the only other people around are passed over saddos called ‘Kevin’ who wear white socks and who come from Swindon or somewhere equally dreadful. when i go to camp i do so to facilitate the cadets having a good time, and i accept that some sacrifice might be neccessary - losing a weeks work, staying in a shabby Travelodge, having to speak to people from Swindon called Kevin who wear white socks - but there are limits to the sacrifice i’m willing to make, and staying in a wet tent in a wet field having to listen to cadets moaning about how rubbish Annual Camps are and that they now know why none of the Sqns’ SCNO’s put their names on the list very much falls outside those limits.
last year my Sqn was offered 6 places at Annual Camp. we had five applicants, one of whom subsequently dropped out, and of the four who went two said they wouldn’t go again. in the same summer holiday we did a now annual sector camp to a large DTE facility - 100+ cadet places for four Sqns with about 140+ cadets between them. we were over-subcribed, we were even over-subcribed for staff…
I would certainly think twice about attending an annual camp if I was going to be in a tent for the whole time. I am fully prepared to rough it for a weekend, but annual camps can often be stressful for staff and we are doing it for the cadets. It is nice to have somewhere reasonably comfortable to go at the end of the day, and a tent would just depress me. I don’t necessarily expect to be in a proper mess - basic transit accommodation is fine. All I ask is a bed, locker and plug socket.
Both @angus & @talon make valid points, in particular the issue were SNCOs have no interest on returning to an Annual Camp (Blue)
Those stats alone prove that this is clearly the future of camps that will still give cadets an experience of military life.
Do you have a copy of your training programme so we can share best practice across ACC?
break them up into managable groups, lots of shooting, lots of AT, lots of FC, put in a decent march and shoot, use the most interesting ranges you can get, don’t assume cadets will disolve if it rains, have as many fun competions as possible throughout the week - worst Hawaiian shirt competion, blindfold table tennis competion, how in the name of God can you eat that? competition, who got dressed in the dark this morning? competition - and lots little stuff like best cadet of the day, most improved cadet of the day, best cadet NCO of the day, get a massive Chinese takeaway one night, and don’t be afraid to send them to bed utterly exhausted, filthy and having just rolled off the training area at 10pm.
what killed blue camps was boredom, the cadets finished at 5pm and they were bored rigid - as were the staff. there is so little to do that everything is a ‘make work’ effort, the huge advantage a green camp with DTE facilities has is that the stuff is all just immediately to hand. we’ve done one where we took 40+ cadets up onto the training area for 7 days solid, we didn’t stay on the camp at all, we did no section or cultural visits, it was just FC, shooting, AT and the odd BBQ. no bowling, no WiFi, no phone signal, no TV, and no catering apart from a Chinese that filled two packing cases…
Nah they were the best bits, being at camp is as much about the social side as anything else. I hate camps where the mentality is do things after ‘tea’, to keep the cadets occupied. As cadets we’d to do some kit care and then just sit around, sometimes there’d be some shenanigans but that’s part and parcel of being a teen. I’ve had open and frank exchanges with CC who think cadets can’t be trusted (as that what it boils down to) to be left to their own devices. If you consider that staff and cadets are up at 0600 if not earlier and on the go until 1700-1800, by that time you’ve done your day’s work. After ‘tea’ should be little more than brief for the following day, quick who’s doing what and your turn at baby-sitting.
last tented camp I was on I told them I wouldn’t be back…
Holes you can get your fist through on the tents, infested with insects,
only about 20% of the tents were fit and reasonably water tight.
No duckboards or even a chair for you bags.
A busy pub across from the camp area and the short cut home from the pub was across
the camp area.
The visits were even worse as they were very busy and couldn’t see much.
On the bus on the way home the cadets were just glad to be going home
Cam Com said it was a fantastic camp… She stayed in the mess all other staff and cadets
had to stay in tents…
NEVER AGAIN!!!
I feel after dinner there should always be a simple evening activity, some sports, uniform maintenance or even Padres hour nothing to heavy or hard working. but this should be able to be ran by perhaps 2 or 3 staff with the remainder either getting some rest or prepping for the next day. In the world of drivers hours etc. we need to ensure these are followed as much as we can.
What I am seeing is a dangerous return to activities everyday from 0700 until 2230 this could lead to exhaustion and if there was an accident who is to blame?
one of the advantages of running camps that staff actually want to go to is that you can have enough staff to manage such issues. obviously for those used to ‘Blue’ Annual Camps this concept might take a bit of getting used to…