Strategic Footprint


Who provides staff? We all volunteer on the squadrons / DFs we want to no one provides us. The Wing Staff might like to think we are their’s to do move around like chess pieces, but we are sentient humans doing something in spare time, which they fail to understand, despite being of the same stock.


Difficult to set up … best done higher up

These are the two problems to this potential solution and not mutually exclusive.


We looked into using local school fields for archery and stopped.
It was crippling amounts of money IMO for a field and we didn’t bother. We approached all 3 schools and as they have people paying to use pitches, they couldn’t give us it for nothing. We played the some ot your pupils will benefit card and it still didn’t work.


[quote=“Wokka, post:33, topic:3470, full:true”]They are busy interrogating the cadet figures on Bader. There is more than enough historical data to prove current figures aren’t a blip. The therory being why keep open a failing squadron when there is another nearby. I beleive the squadrons under threat are then put on notice and if things aren’t turned around then they are history.
Couldn’t tell you how much time they are given though.
I was told the days of keeping Sqns going at all costs are gone.[/quote]
The olde worlde chestnut of there’s one nearby. Nearby works up to 3-4 miles by road not straight line. I loathe travelling to other squadrons on parade nights as the roads are crap and it takes far too long. I love doing product searches in shops and the closest shops are all straight line, but as roads don’t go in straight lines, the closest shops are not normally the easiest / closest by road.

As for interrogating a database, the preserve of the dim. In order to understand squadrons rhey should be out there doing it two nights a week and at weekends, then and only then will they understand and they should do the ATC on the same terms as us … voluntarily, unpaid, not salaried.

Before closing any squadrons can we see a value for money analysis of 7 Group Captains and an Air Commodore costing c£1000000 for an organisation with around 10000 adults, who effectively cost nothing?


What I was suggesting is that the MOD talk to the DfE to relocate existing community units, onto school premises, funding for facilities would then be available from the CEP LIBOR funds…

As the unit is relocated, the times/staffing/cadets remain the same. You may find that staffing/cadet numbers increase due to a higher profile on the school.

This would remove the current infra cost for any Sqn that moves, freeing it up for other units that couldn’t move…

As MattB says this needs to be dealt with at the top to organise, and could be completed through a lease agreement for example, that would detail standard available facilities… we would pay for sport facilities now, so why not if at a different location.


[quote=“themajor, post:66, topic:3470”]
this needs to be dealt with at the top to organise[/quote]



The only issue I have with that is that many students who’ve spent the entire day (and however many preceeding) at school, and have no wish to go back there for another 2-3 hours in the evening.


But this means understanding the individual and I can’t imagine Gp Capt’s and Air Commodore’s give a monkey’s about the individuals and what affects them. Let’s be honest Wings don’t and if they don’t or can’t be bothered what hope is there for anyone at Region or higher caring.

Just because you move squadrons doesn’t mean your time and or commitment changes for the better. Time is a finite resource and commitment is a personal factor.

This lack of caring / understanding and acceptance is really a root problem above squadron level, although I know a few people who moan about COs going off on one if they can’t get to the squadron. One of these COs apparently attended the squadron once a fortnight because he couldn’t be bothered he lived c.20 miles away, in this person’s opinion this OC wanted to be on Wing and saw squadron command as just a box to tick.

How many people are at squadrons where they feel compelled to attend because if they don’t the squadron might well not open? Is this reflected in the database?


And a “multi-school” mix, which is what generally happens at a sqn, seems to work very well.


Moving into the schools is all well and good, but depending on where you makes a real difference to the support you receive with lots of schools still hating the Cadet forces. I know of a School Squadron based on a School who were refused any chance to recruit from the School as the headteacher didn’t agree with them.


[quote=“Farriersaxe, post:52, topic:3470, full:true”]That depends on the school catchment or more so where the kids come from at the school.
Our school has around 40% are OOA, so that’s one group that are very unlikely to come back to school later, then there are those who do other things and those that aren’t interested, who’d have thought that.[/quote]
This is a major factor for any unit anywhere. We have got 3 local secondaries and I’ve found out that many more than I anticipated do not live locally, ie within walking distance. There are lots who come in by car and coach/bus. We still recruit but I think we end up doing more for two other squadrons, who I would say must crap schools in their area.
This might change as we have got large housing estates (developments in new speak) going up, so in 5-10 years there should be a more local catchment.

I also feel we shouldn’t think we are cream of the crop in terms of kids wanting to join, especially at the moment. I used to be able to talk us up in terms of unique opportunities, but not anymore, as we have none.

The ‘critical mass’ for a squadron depends on the accommodation. A single hut should not have a maximum of 30 people in it, staff and cadets. A hut classroom has never been able to take more than 8 sitting at tables, in all of my years of being in the Corps. I’ve been crammed in for ‘lectures’ on staff courses and would be dangerous in an emergency. When we have open evenings it gets very cosy.


Are they truly SMEs?
Are these the same SMEs that wrote the material for classifications?
If you think of something like STEM, which seems to have become a buzz acronym. You would need an army of SMEs for that and a lot of cross-discipline working, for STEM to work properly to give squadrons something to deliver. Just for a few; joiners, fitters, turners, physicists, IT developers/planners, electricians, mathematicians, plumbers, mechanical engineers, designers etc etc etc, but I bet they haven’t. It’ll be someone dragged from a Wing or Region with no particular background in anything related to it.


The SMEs who did classification work were volunteers who were coopted - not established posts. They all had full roles elsewhere. Some were SMEs. Some werent but volunteered for subjects. Some were educators who got given subjects. It was a real mix.

The SMEs I’m referring to are those who’ve been given/applied for established posts. The specialist shooters, radio, music types etc.


[quote=“MikeJenvey, post:51, topic:3470, full:true”][quote=“Farriersaxe, post:39, topic:3470”]
And I know a PPL who I’m sure would take the kids for a flight,
Only if on a totally “private” arrangement, with no “RAFAC” input - all flights in non-Service aircraft (ACT035) are currently not permitted, policy under major review (& has been for at least 2 months I think).[/quote]
I was talking about my other interests and has it happens he’s taking some of them up this week at £50 a time, which their parents have been more than happy to pay. The kids are quite excited. One of the dads said it’s cheaper than a day out at a theme park and his son hasn’t stopped talking about it.
Doing anything like this within the ATC would cause the headsheds’ heads to implode, purely as it’s far too practical and not enough admin. Even if it was a purely private arrangement and it got out, the BS that would land in the OCs inbox, would not have made it worth the effort, barring the smiles on the faces of the cadets of course.


does anyone have a link to the letter???

I have a hard copy but need an electronic copy and the scanner is bust


I’ve forwarded onto you :slight_smile:




Breakdown of Permanent Staff Costs that is a lot of money £4 Million+ being spent on staff at HQAC with an average salary of circa 45k one would hope for slightly better performance in some areas…


i find it fascinating that W&W, C&E and LASER are on on par with each other given what must be a significant variation in population density and question what on earth is going on in SW Region given the high costs for an “average” population density


That average wage figure will have been significantly skewed by CRAFAC and the CO’S up there…