Shhhh!!! 
Thatās the loophole for three years time or if it all kicks of with Russia 
Ok noted, using same arguement, high risk can also be injury free, which then leads to reward over risk discussion, plus lots more mitigation factors which the greater costs should be offset with a greater benefit. I think we all acknowledge the financial losses of not doing carvparkimg, hence in hindsight more notice would have been beneficial.
Ultimately it is up to the accountable person to decide what their minimum level of acceptance and assurance is,
The overall tolerance of risks will be different between over 18s (possibly paid)persons who are also accountable for their own safety ( and others) and u18s who may lack maturity and experience and whilst they should be aware of their own safety (and others) they are not legally accountable.
And yet, they appear to be at RAF Benson. Just as long as they wear a scout uniform and not a blue one?
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Who holds the risk there I wonder? Is it the Station Commander? Is it the Scouts? Is it an AOC?
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Itās says āmarshallingā, but do we know if itās vehicles or just people?
Just had a thought - could 16 & 17 year old regular RAF AS1 or AS2s be used in car parking/marshalling duties?
If so which AOC would hold that risk?
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Yep, I agree with your point - we donāt definitely know (or I donāt) Iām drawing an inference as mostly these type of events tend to include a car parking aspect. If they arenāt doing that at Benson then fair enough and I shall wind my neck back in 
these are critical questions.
Signing off SMS events, it appears ālegalā in the wording of what are āsigningā off - as the event IC, a Sqn CFAV, not necessarily the Sqn OC.
Certain events capture the interest of a Wing SME or Wg Cdr.
And likewise at Rgn tooā¦
Where does the buck ultimately lie?
If as a for instance a Sqn approved (ie by the OC) event leads to an incident, which ends up in court is it the Sqn OC, the Wing OC or AOC 22 Grp who is the dock?
Surely the last person signing the event off is the one āresponsibleā and liable. Else, how does AOC 22 Grp sleep at night knowing there are dozens of events his RAF CFAV Wing Cdrs donāt even see are occurring every week which he is āultimately responsible forā?
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I sleep well TYā¦because I understand risk and the associated processes. I also trust my personnel and know that we donāt always get things right or, indeed, risks can materialise. Thatās risk management.
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So is there instead a possibility of a conversation around how we can build specific processes and training to be able to extend that trust to vehicle marshalling as an activity, as opposed to a permanent ban?
So far, under the absence of specific training, the organisation has managed to avoid incident. So perhaps there is then scope to use that positive reality in substandard circumstances as a base to formalise a best practice package that ensures this remains the case with greater confidence?
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thanks - but that doesnāt answer the question of where the buck actually stopsā¦
traffic marshalling events require Wing sign off as a minimum, thus Wg Cdrs have slept well
Region have the ability to sign these off also - so those at Region sleep well (perhaps less so in SW given the situation)
those at HQAC, including CAC sleeps well,
all presumably on the basis they also understood the ārisk and processesā
is this through arrogance knowing their approval actually means nothing and should it come down to it, those further up the CoC are the ones sitting in the dock?
and so on the topic of car parking you didnāt sleep well and spoke up?
without wanting to shoot the organisation in the foot, it makes me wonder how many other activities are Wing signing off that have been fine for decades where the ārisk and processesā have been trusted and understood but are now not so well entertained?
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Community engagement isnāt the reason we did car parking. It was for financial gain to pay for activities and equipment. (Some of which is mandated to use, such as IT equipment, but we receive no funding for.)
Can you help us with that problem, so the staff can sleep half as well as yourself?
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In the past, when we have provided assistance to public events, there has been a volunteer leader briefing, ahead of time, an online training course to complete, then a briefing for all volunteers on the day.
Plus event staff from the organisers making periodic checks, both on safety and welfare.
I should add these had no car parking element but we were dealing with a large, professional events team.
From what I have seen of car parking / marshalling, by other volunteer groups, at events Iāve been to as a paying customer thereās little or none of that.
I understand why we donāt want to take on these risks.
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I sleep well as untrained children are not doing something I deem as an intolerable risk for financial gain. Find another way of fundraising.
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Thanks - but please can we look at things a different way (& we generally refer to cadets as āyoung adultsā).
What factors, if any, would need to change for car marshalling to be a viable activity please?
You refer to āuntrainedā - are there elements of trg that could be considered suitable?
Why is the risk intolerable? What factors or considerations would make risk ALARP & therefore acceptable? Minimum age of attendance for example? Dedicated briefings & safety demonstration on-site? Other youth organisations marshall cars at events, so clearly there is a disparity between the perception of risk.
Some car marshalling has been done without financial gain, so Ā£Ā£Ā£ should not really be the main factor - but if you did want to consider the pros / cons of getting income into a sqn, then it would be quite hard to match the income generated by car marshalling at larger events. It makes a big difference, especially to supporting cadets whose families canāt afford annual camp fees, some uniform items (boots), etc.
Car marshalling also puts RAFAC into the public eye - when our Sqn used to marshall cars at Duxford air shows, we would always wear blues to maximise the publicity. It was always rewarding to receive numerous comments from the public about smart, polite & engaging cadets.
Mentioning air shows / stn open days, itās a rare opportunity to have free entry to an event that encourages cadets to get to see aviation close up.
So, I hope that further discussion can move things forward such that car marshalling can return.
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Itās inspirational leadership like this that makes me really glad tonight is my first night at the SCC.
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Find other ways to put our brilliant cadets into the public eye without putting them in harmās way. Iāll make no further comment on this. My position is clear and I have seen absolutely nothing which remotely changes the risk-based decision making.
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How? No oneās put them out more than you by removing a key method for them to raise funds to do activities, because itās not easy to just āraise funds.ā
Oh! You meant āput ouR cadetsā
What a prophetic typoā¦
That wonāt last long!! 
Are you able to just transfer your CFC over or do you have to do a selection process etc?
Iām considering it but feel a bit old to be a Midshipman!
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