In the (not so) distant past RN Commanders who had been passed over for the Captains’ List on there final time of eligibility were permitted to petition the Board of Admiralty with their case. History (apocryphal?) would have it that one such officer wrote as follows:
“Your Lordships, one every list there is one officer of whom everyone acquainted with him says “How on earth did he make it?” I humbly request that I be selected to be that officer”
On a more serious note, in the post Corporate Honours List there was on officer; whom we may refer to as GB; who had made very significant contribution to the success of an important facet of our effort. To do so he had worked well outside the parameters that would normally been expected of someone in his position and role. In the course of this he gained the respect and admiration of all who came into contact with him and their wholehearted endorsement of his professionalism and ability. When the list appeared two officers on the unit received the MBE. There is no doubt that they probably earned them, but their contribution was well within the confines of their “day job”. GB?, well he had to make do with a Queen’s Commendation and that was after some urgent representations. I saw others, before and since, who received the Air Force Cross for lesser contribution than GB made.
I rather lost interest in the honours system after that and nothing I have seen subsequently has done much to restore my faith in it.
I saw people getting honours in the Op Telic list for just doing their jobs in the UK. People also got them on the Op for doing nothing different to anyone else who was there! It’s as if there is an allocation for the units that take part and it’s up to those wearing the big trousers to decide who gets something (after they’ve had theirs of course). Someone I knew of didn’t get a gong on the Op list and actually complained so much that they got something in the next normal list, well, at least that’s how it seemed to everyone. It hasn’t put me off the honours system though as although there are people every time that questions are asked about and our ‘hero’ sportsmen and celebs tend to dilute the worth of the honours, I like to think that there are quite a lot more people who get rewarded who actually deserve it.
Yep, wrote my FS up for an MBE in the mid 90s; he didn’t get it. I was told by my OC admin Wg that after his initial sift, my FS was No 1 on the list that went to the Stn Cdr for approval. Unfortunately, Stn Cdr decided that one of his aircrew cronies (apparently at No 4 after sift) should get put forward instead even though his citation was sh**e and OC Admin had to rewrite it. He actually got it as well and my FS got a CinC’c commendation instead, which he was very pleased with as he knew nothing about being nominated for an award anyway. I was a bit miffed tho!
Interesting point when considering which list to go for. I’ve just discovered that the Civil List MBEs made are no more than about 1800 per year, Military List is about 300 per year. Pretty good in our favour.
[quote=“noah claypole” post=14483]
3) If somebody is putting in the same time and effort as their Uniformed counterparts (which has a specified minimum number of hours) then I don’t see why not. I accept that those who perhaps only come in to deliver 1 subject infrequently would not qualify, but it would have to be on a case by case basis - something is better than nothing![/quote]
All it needs is for a CI to turn up for the same period of time as an NCO (12 hours) - which is recorded on BADER - and verified by the CO. Nice and easy.
[quote=“Plt Off Prune” post=14523]Let me toss this cookie into the pot. How about the number of citations is much lower, because the nominations are quashed at wing level (OC wing and WExO) because they themselves haven’t been nominated for said award after 3 Gadzillion years service.
Discuss. :whistle:[/quote]
Clearly, I’m too subtle!:
[quote=“noah claypole” post=14481]
… I’m certainly not a believer in the ‘everyone’s a winner’ culture that seems prevalent these days, but also not into the ‘get one over’ (I haven’t got it so you can’t) society either. [/quote]
[quote=“noah claypole” post=14557][quote=“Plt Off Prune” post=14523]Let me toss this cookie into the pot. How about the number of citations is much lower, because the nominations are quashed at wing level (OC wing and WExO) because they themselves haven’t been nominated for said award after 3 Gadzillion years service.
Discuss.[/quote]
Clearly, I’m too subtle!:
[quote=“noah claypole” post=14481]
… I’m certainly not a believer in the ‘everyone’s a winner’ culture that seems prevalent these days, but also not into the ‘get one over’ (I haven’t got it so you can’t) society either. [/quote][/quote]
There probably is an element of what you both suggest and I think this attitude could come about as a result of people’s opinions of why someone is doing the work they do and therefore why they won’t write them up.
There is, I suspect, the view that some individuals are ‘pushing’ themselves to get an Honour. I was in discussion with friends from another Wg over the summer and we happened to be talking about our respective senior staff. My friends mentioned that one of their senior officers ‘was desperate to get an MBE/OBE’ and was busy pushing charitable activity and indulging in self-publicity. Now, I doubt that said senior staff member has actually looked up and said ‘you know what, I’d really like a gong and this is how you’re going to get it for me’, but clearly people think that’s what he’s doing. If his CofC are of the same opinion, they may be reluctant to write him up because they feel his work could be misdirected or unfitting. Equally, I have known of Honours recipients in the RAF being asked ‘now you’ve got an MBE, are you going to stop doing x, y and z?’ Yet again, an example of people thinking that someone is only doing voluntary work for the gong and not for other more altruistic reasons.
[quote=“ddr61” post=14558]Can you wear the Imperial service Medal om an ACO Uniform?
And, if you can, will it go left or right of the Diamond jubilee ( from the wearers point of view0[/quote]
It is listed as an approved medal.
It would be worn after gallantry medals but before jubilee and coronation medals
It is listed as an approved medal.
It would be worn after gallantry medals but before jubilee and coronation medals[/quote]
Just out of interest, where did you find that Incubus? I had a look in AP1358 and 1358c, and couldn’t find any reference to the ISM. I was going to suggest writing formally to the RAF Ceremonial Office.
Sorry Prune, don’t get what you’re asking here? Both statements are correct! We were discussing earlier the merits of Civil vs Military lists and the comment that some organisations do very well in the Civil side.
exmpa