Hello chaps, I wonder if you would be able to explain the concept of “Staff Cadets” to me - their role, responsibilities and how they are different from regular cadets. Please remember that I am ACF so assume I do not have access to any ACO or RAF publication.
They are legally adults, and so have a duty of care over younger cadets - the same way any other staff member does.
We can use them as staff to count towards our ratios (e.g. female cover), but we can’t leave them solely in charge of an event.
They are supposed to be learning how to be a staff member, to prepare them for becoming one at 20. We use ours very well and do as much as we can with them to get them intergrated in to the staff team, but I know other squadrons that don’t.
pEp, how exactly do you use yours?
In terms of camp accommodation, are they accommodated with the adults? Are they permitted in the mess?
They should be accommodated seperately from the under 18 cadets. In some places that means separate rooms at the end of a billet. In other places nothing changes. It depends on what is actually available.
They mess with the cadets in the Junior Ranks.
I tend to feel that the latest incarnation of staff cadet has a lot of potential but the rules make them effectively unusable. If they are adults let us have them in the Corps as adults, not the half-way house we have now.
I look forward to the review of over 18s as suggested in the action plan.
I get the impression from reading hte ACF forums that on camp, the mess is something set up and run by the camp, for the camp. This may be an exception or a misunderstanding but I’ll continue anyway.
We typically end up on camp on an RAF station and use the established Officers and Sgtw/WOs messes for our officers and SNCO CFAVs/CIs respectively. We are guests in those messes and are bound by their rules.
With respect to dining, cadets are cadets and will eat in the “Junior Ranks’ Mess”. For accommodation they stay in whatever has been made available for cadets on that particular camp: a barrack block, portacabins, 12x12 tents etc. When it comes to segregating staff cadets we can be limited in options: a separate tent, their own room(s), different corridors in a block etc. They are unlikely to have access to their own ablutions and may even need to bunk in a communal room with younger cadets.
Putting staff cadets into one of the messes is not an option (I suspect we’ve never asked and I expect it would only be for sleeping if permission was granted) which leaves the options of OR’s singlies blocks or transit accommodation if any is (made) available.
It is theoretically easier in situations where the ATC take over a facility completely as the option is open to treat adults as adults and bunk the staff and staff cadets in the same facility/area/rooms but you may find some staff who still threat their staff cadets as children and for whom such an idea is utterly alien. These may be the same ones who think you can’t have officers and SNCOs living/dining together.
ATC Cadets are not permitted to stay in messes regardless of the circumstances/emergency. They are permitted to eat in them though strangely. I think they take the stance that they cannot trust their own staff not to ‘meddle’* with them more than the cadets misbehaving.
- i mean that in all guises including running wind-ups.
Besides, if you were in the Pipe and Slippers mess, would you want a load of 18 y/o knocking about? It occaisionally happens on flying stations but there’s more of them living in.
Staff Cadets when I last looked at the stats represented around 8% of the Corps’ cadet strength and if you assume that around 50% of these are what you might actually regard as effective ie attending twice a week, as they are working and or involved in education, you have to wonder why we continue to bother with them and not lower the CI age to 18. They would be better understood in terms of messing and accommodation (and everything else) and if they weren’t able to attend every parade night they could be utilised as some CIs are and have been for decades.
We’ve started ‘interviewing’ staff cadets as expecting them to be at every single parade evening or event is unrealistic. I gave up expecting them to do jobs or similar, outside of standard cadet roles ages ago. I used to, but got bored with staff moaning they were hardly here and or me talking to them when it didn’t happen, as I would have expected.
The interviews with me, TO and Adj along the lines of; what we want them to do (instruction, jobs on the sqn), what would they like to do and what they think they can commit to timewise, taking school and work into account. We’ll make agreement on expected attendance on the understanding that as adults I expect them to stand by what they say and if they can’t they are to email me, just as with other staff. I’ve only got 2 but so far they’ve seemed responsive, but time will tell. I’ve got 3 coming up to DBS time, so we’ll be speaking to them soon, so as to get things in place before they hit 18, but I know 2 are going to uni, so I will ask what their expectations wrt where they are going and ask them to decide if staying at the squadron is realistic if it’s miles away. Afterall they’ll still be paying subs.
This I hope will help me to retain them to the decision point (19½) for becoming staff and if they so desire, to become staff. I expect to get an awful lot leave at 17 to 17½ as they know what’s coming when I speak to them about DBS. Better that than deadweight.
As for camps etc when the notion of “adult cadets” was introduced and all kerfuffle around DBS (or CRB as was) and separate accommodaton, I know that the people responsibe for this decision hadn’t for one moment even taken the latter into consideration just come up with unrealistic nonsense as rules. I can say that I know this because every single camp is a turd and vomit fudge when it comes to the over 18s and should it go wrong in any way the decision makers would fall on the hapless souls in charge, like a ton of something steaming and odourous. Not realising their incompetence and incomprehension directly lead to the situation. When it first came up at a COs conference, once the laughter had died down and head shaking had ceased, the consensus was it wouldn’t work for all the reasons that have come to pass since.
Current bandings:
13 - 7.7%
14 - 18.2%
15 - 20.1%
16 - 16.5%
17 - 10.9%
18+ - 8.36%
Plus 18.2% junior cadets, ages not recorded. Probably safe to assume the majority in the 13/14 bracket.
+/- for roundings.
We use them in several ways:
- They run our interflight competition - whether this is because they tend to be SNCOs as well is open for debate.
- We invite them to take part in and encourage them to sign up to courses, such as BEL, Heartstart instructor, etc.
- They tend to work in the office with the staff for a lot of the time, but also are out and about.
- We ask them to experience different areas of the squadron over time - so we might ask them to help out in stores, to get an idea of that. They might help out the Trg Off with programme planning, or the adj with stuff.
- WRT accomodation - we try to give them a separate room, but occasionally they may have to stay in the same accomodation as staff. It will very much depend on the person for that though, and what we’re doing.
- I, personally, see them as a uniformed CI in some ways. Not in the same vein as an SNCO (ATC), but more in that it’s their “club”, they volunteer do to what they want to do. I don’t expect them to do everything a member of staff will, but I would like them to do as much as they are able to.
In short, talon, we (as an organisation) haven’t got a clue. Can you make any useful suggestions?
edit: wrong thread.
Don’t be too quick to criticise people, as you may soon be experiencing the things that distracted them.
Does that sound familiar GHE2? 
[quote=“Sikhing_Answers” post=16542][quote=“glass half empty 2” post=16340]
I can say that I know this because every single camp is a turd and vomit fudge when it comes to the over 18s and should it go wrong in any way the decision makers would fall on the hapless souls in charge, like a ton of something steaming and odourous. Not realising their incompetence and incomprehension directly lead to the situation.
[/quote]
Don’t be too quick to criticise people, as you may soon be experiencing the things that distracted them.
Does that sound familiar GHE2? ;)[/quote]
to be strictly fair the GHE2, he was defending volunteers who give up time and money they could ill-afford - criticising the ‘efforts’ of people who are paid generously to do the serious thinking of the ACO is something rather different.