Staff Cadet standards

Adult Staff The Staff Mess
1

Old hat, maybe, but something that’s bothering me…

On turning eighteen, a cadet becomes a staff cadet and takes on certain responsibilities in line with being an adult involved in a youth organisation. I’ve said before that I think it would be better if they just did away with this grey area entirely, but that’s not what I want to talk about in this thread.

Since staff cadets do exist, does anybody else think a lot more thought should go into who gets to be one and who doesn’t? A few years ago, you had to leave at eighteen unless you were a Cadet Sergeant and this seemed to filter out people who weren’t really mature enough to take responsibility for other people’s kids. Now, retention seems to be pretty much automatic for those who want to stay.

My thought is that this completely defeats the point of staff cadets since, instead of retaining the most grown up and responsible cadets as staff, you end up retaining all the cadets with a ‘Peter Pan’ mentality, because they just don’t leave.

This train of thought was triggered by meeting a seventeen year old cadet whose boots had gone so hard they were struggling to take them off and put them on. I put two coats of polish on them (the boots, not the cadet) and the leather softened up. It left me wondering: if you can’t look after your boots and yourself, how can you look after cadets?

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Back in the good old days there was none of this “selection” and if I’m completely honest the older cadets of yesteryear of which I was one, were no different in terms of outlook, behaviour (we were probably worse) and general demeanour than the modern ones. Yet we got to 18 and just carried on. I and those pre-Laser 18+ would still expect and be expected to have control and be in charge of cadets and in many ways more so, than modern ones, except there was no CRB process and the associated bits from the children’s act.

The question that needs to be asked is, what supposedly makes an 18 year old today less worthy of just staying a cadet than an 18 year old, 9 and bit years ago? Nothing IMO.

Are today’s any more / less mature than their predecessors? I don’t think so and the problem is maturity isn’t measurable. So what about the lad and his shoes, sorry as you won’t agree, but that has nothing to do with anything. I’ve been on a few camps and mess nights when I would seriously question the maturity / suitability of some middle-aged male and female uniformed staff to be in charge of anything, let alone other people’s children. If a group of cadets “let their hair down” like some staff do, some of these staff would get all uppity, having forgotten their own shennanigans.

Another problem is there isn’t anything written down that says, that now as an adult working with minors what the responsibilities are, compared to the day before when you were 17 and 363 days. I have started to sit mine down and tell them explicitly what the expectations are especially around CP when they are 17½ish and then give them the option to carry on or leave. Not one has said they want to leave, so I put them through the paperchase and not one has been turned down.

The “only stay in if you’re a Sergeant” of a few years ago, was a complete mistake IMO and driven like most things in the Corps, by people who knew nothing about nor understand the organisation. Thankfully this was rescinded. What you have to remember is that you can’t, even if you think they are worthy, promote everyone.

In the most recent strategy for the Corps it says

The real question is, what is and has there been exclusively for older cadets for the last 20 odd years? Nothing that is just for those over 18, so that they can be allowed to be 18. When I was a cadet there was Gatow which was attended by mostly 18+. When you went on UK camps you got late passes and spent the last night having a few jars, in a local pub, the CC would invariably turn up and buy a round. Do this today and the CC would probably be strung up. It’s all well and good having courses so they can instruct or get some qualification, but what about something “fun”? If I was 18 now, the question would be what is there for me?

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I agree almost completely with what GHE2 has said here (make a note - it may not happen again :wink: )

[quote=“glass half empty 2” post=3300]Another problem is there isn’t anything written down that says, that now as an adult working with minors what the responsibilities are, compared to the day before when you were 17 and 363 days. [/quote]There is ACP4 and the BASIC course but perhaps some of the problem lies not with telling the 18 year old what the score is but with making sure that the unit staff and the rule-makers at HQAC are fully aware of it too. In HQAC’s own words, they are to be treated as “probationary staff”

[quote=“glass half empty 2” post=3300]The real question is, what is and has there been exclusively for older cadets for the last 20 odd years?[/quote]The rank of CWO in the ATC? You could say that some of the specialist AT courses may count but they’d still be treated as kids no doubt.

[quote=“glass half empty 2” post=3300]When I was a cadet there was Gatow which was attended by mostly 18+. When you went on UK camps you got late passes and spent the last night having a few jars, in a local pub, the CC would invariably turn up and buy a round.[/quote]and this is exactly how it should be still. Treat the adults (cadet and staff alike) as adults and let them get on with it.

Where a Staff Cdt may end up being billeted with or near the other cadets they should not be permitted to drink but if there is adequate separation and cover then why not? The same needs to be the case for all adults and I’d sooner see a camp or activity remaining 100% “dry” than the adult cadets being discriminated against.

There is more to life and adulthood than boot care and there will be plenty of staff who don’t understand the full benefits of polish - that is why we have training.

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Fully respect the opinions presented and it’s definitely food for thought. Especially since my ATC side of life is limited compared to “full time” CFAV types.

I guess my point is: you wouldn’t let somebody with no life skills or anything useful to add join as a CI, so why let them be a staff cadet?

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[quote=“tango_lima” post=3320]I guess my point is: you wouldn’t let somebody with no life skills or anything useful to add join as a CI,[/quote]Says who?

[quote=“tango_lima” post=3320] so why let them be a staff cadet?[/quote]Up to 5 years of experience with the organisation?
If they hadn’t been promoted to Cpl at least I’d want to look at any extenuating circumstances but there may be legitimate reasons as there were for some who got axed under LASER v1.

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I’ve spoken to cadets and new CIs who’ve done BASIC and they aren’t told explicitly, I tend to think that there is too much reliance on the yellow cards to inform.
I regard anyone turning up and starting the process as probationary staff, would I say to a middle aged gent or lady you can’t do something that the laws of the land permit you to?

CWO has been a pointless rank since Sep 2003, IMO, and as I say, courses, so what. There should be “camps” only for older cadets, that dispense with much of the rigmarole of usual camps.

Can’t we allow the Staff Cdts some adult responsibility? Let them go to bed when they want or let them have an alcoholic bevvy if they wish, regardless of where they are billeted? If the rules are made clear there shouldn’t be any problems. As staff the DO stays ‘dry’ and invariably others do as well.

Incubus is right. The other point about joining as a CI is how many squadrons can turn potential staff away?
WRT life skills, look at the number of ex-cadets who commission directly that end up as Sqn Cdrs within 3/4 years, mainly on the basis that they’ve been a cadet and in the regulars you will get Officers of similar age being put in charge of people, but they are trained, coached, advised and observed by all of the more experienced people around them, from day one. In my time as a CO I’ve had to discipline staff, deal with staff and cadets going through difficult times and have irate parents ranting and raving. So while I personally don’t hold with young COs particularly, it’s has to happen as the organisation has little option. So the requirement for Staff Cadets to be “mature” and “life skilled” is somewhat empty.