Staff Cadet Service

Adult Staff
21

this is disappointing to read.

i mean that completely.

As a volunteer i would expect everyone in the organisation to get something from it themselves, some “personal gratification” that keeps them coming back and not a feeling of guilt or pull of responsibility which “forces” their conscience to maintain a commitment.

i have stopped enjoying certain elements of the RAFAC. As a Cadet i was mad keen on FT, getting dressed up in greens, putting on war paint and running round the fields and woods was all very exciting for me.
nowadays i avoid it like the plague. in my 15 years as Staff i have only ever attended the Wing’s “fieldcraft weekend” once, and it proved to me that 1 - i haven’t forgotten any skills, 2 - it is not how i want to spend my spare time.

Unfortunately shooting has gone the same way. I didn’t get much opportunity as a Cadet and wasn’t until i moved units as Staff did i realise that shooting is an activity available as a regular event for a Cadet. I then got myself involved in the Wing team, got myself qualified and made things happen for the Cadets on the unit i was on.
but recently changes have come in which i’ve not enjoyed, it has got harder to get shooting events going, and with the loss of weapon availability has become less enjoyable - my personal gratification is lost.
I now find myself spending more time on other elements i still enjoy.

As a volunteer i feel it is vital to have some enjoyment - else why bother spending precious personal time, which could be spent doing something you genuinely enjoy (which could be sitting on the sofa watching Netflix, down the pub with mates, visiting friends or family, or another hobby without dragging kids from around the town with you)

now to get back on topic

perks as Staff Vs Staff Cadet
No Subs
Not treated like a Cadet anymore (for some Staff Cadets who are still seen as Cadets first this is a big change)
easier to claim back fuel expenses
(there are other “perks” to being uniformed staff, but that is a separate conversation)

22

1 example for you:

On annual camp this year, we had several female staff cadets, but not enough accommodation to put them separately. The FS was happy to do work that would normally be done by staff members - the usual boring behind the scenes camp work.

At the end of the working day, the staff could retire to their mess, have a beer if they wanted, and then go back to a single room, iron their kit (or wash and dry it if needed), and hang it up in a wardrobe.

The FS had to go back to her room before lights out, abide by lights out as their were younger girls in her room, fight for an iron to do her kit, struggle to find somewhere to hang it as there were no wardrobes. Obviously they couldn’t drink, or retire to adult only place, their rooms lacked any sort of privacy, and were subject to having to listen to all of the BS that comes out of the mouths of young teenagers.

I don’t blame some staff cadets for getting the hump!

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23

Intrinsic vs extrinsic motivation.

Intrinsic - I just enjoy it. I’d do it even unpaid. For lots of people, that means sport, or AT, or music, or any hobby, though in a perfect world you make that your job and get paid for it.

Extrinsic - I do it for the money/perks/other rewards secondary to the task itself. Might be worth it for the money (I know lots of bankers like that) but can mean you are just a wage slave.

Both apply well to cadet activities - they will make more effort and achieve better results if they actually enjoy the activity (flying, obvs; also shooting, FT, AT) than if they are only doing it for a badge (dare I say it, Leading Cadet exams…)

I know two BA pilots. For one, it was his dream from the age of 5. For the other, it was a decent job that looked like he could do it when he left school (and the ATC) at 18. Guess which one enjoys his job more… yet the salary and perks are the same.

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24

How is that a perk for a member of staff? She’s staff cadet if I read it right. I don’t regard staying in a mess as a perk, I’m paying for it.
A perk is something that is given, without prejudice and normally payment by the company.

Staff cadets are still cadets, the clue is in the title. The way the organisation describes them blurs this fact.

25

Using the messes is not a given.

Ever stayed in a 12x12, in the lines?

You’ll appreciate that slipping off for some peace and quiet in a single room is very much a perk.

Staff cadets are adults that can take on staff responsibilities, whilst at the same time being treated the same as a 12 year old…

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26

Oh yeah, paying through the nose at £1 a night.

The staff cadets are likely paying a lot more than you…

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27

It’s not a perk, it’s an entitlement under Air Force law.

Which I have asked the Comdt to politely remind ACLOs at her forthcoming conference…

28

For which uniformed CFAV no longer come under.

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29

Of the last 7 camps I’ve been on in the mess once. The CC got there on Thursday, spoke to both messes and all staff were in their resepective mess, after Wing said their wasn’t any room. Apparently the messes were surprised no cadet staff were taking rooms.
If you pay for something it’s not a perk, regardless of how much or little you pay.

Thanks for all the input, doesn’t answer the question … what perks did the cadet think there are to being staff?

30

To be fair if I was a camp com (which I never have been so not sure how it quite works) and i was using the staff cadet as a staff member. I would deduct things they would have to pay for such as staying in the mess (not that I’ve ever seen a cadet stay in the mess). Also deduct the cost of activities they act as DS in, instead of actively participating.

1 Like
31

If you’re getting it cheaper and/or better than the cadets it’s a perk (especially if you’re being paid VA to attend camp whereas a staff cadet is paying to attend). I get loads of discounts through work (and union, and defence discount) I would count those as perks even though I still have to pay something.

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32

I don’t get this Staff Cadets don’t pay for things. I did just over 4 years as a staff cadet and to all intents and purposes I regarded myself as a cadet, who helped out doing things, as directed by the CO. I paid subs and for all the camps etc I went on, despite being a CWO to boot, given all the additional responsibilities. I didn’t expect or demand any preferential treatment.
I think HQAC have tried to make staff cadets more than they really are, older cadets, by pimping the role. I doesn’t matter how you dress them up, they are still cadets until they hit their 20th birthday.
The fact is they are not as informed as old style staff cadets were and no matter how much they trawl through sharepoint they won’t be.
I am fully aware of squadrons who almost rely on their staff cadets to do all manner of things, I am not one of those people. When I have them I ask them to do things like any other member of staff, with no greater or lesser expectation. One of my fellow OCs bemoaned the fact a staff cadet who they had effectively doing adj and TO, said they were going to uni after taking a year out, and were leaving the Corps. I thought more fool them.

33

It does show a lack of forward planning, did they know the staff cadets plans for their future if so they have no-one to blame but themselves.

34

They had assumed,I feel, they didn’t go straight after finishing FE College so weren’t going and the cadet wasn’t really sure. But they had already been loading them with things before their 18th birthday and the CO told people who wonderful the cadet was and they were going to be the next best thing.
We’ve got a couple who will be 18 towards the middle of next year. We’ve spoken to them and asked what their intentions are, one is going to uni and the other undecided but might go for the Army. They’ve both been told it’s up to them if they want to stay after 18 and let us know. Given they are in the second year of 6th Form and FE College, I won’t be ‘layering up’ staying after 18.

36

What do you class as something a staff cadet does as a ‘staff responsibility’ which couldn’t be done by an U18 SNCO?

37

Running an event or opening up the unit for a training course outside parade night hours. Obtaining and using NGB qualifications in Adventure Training.

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38

As has already been said, with some exceptions, staff cadets can now run events without CFAV being present.

A bag pack is a good example, as is a day walk with cadets with the correct NGB qualification.

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39

Sorry everyone I’ve been quite busy with work over the last few days.

What I was referring to with perks was the below which steve679 hit right on the money:

To elloborate:

Why should I pay subscription when I am doing the same job, or even more of a demanding job then some of the staff at my Squadron.

Saying staff cadets are still cadets isn’t really a valid argument in my opinion. It is the 21st century and 18 - 20 year olds expect to be treated with a certain amount of respect and be empowered to perform certain tasks. This is an area the Corps is failing at greatly at the moment. In what other organisation, once you turn 18, are you still a child? The opinion that staff cadets should just be more like they were in the old days will just not simply work in this 21st century version of the Corps, and that attitude will see most staff cadets leave as they can find a better alternative somewhere else.

The amount of fuel I have used myself to ferry cadets to events and not been able to claim back is immense and it is all due to their being a different process from staff cadets and staff. In fact, I had in driven in excess of 200 miles and had been waiting for a reimbursement form for over 12 months when I was teaching one night and my laptop broke down. I asked a staff member to help get me the relevant docs I needed to which the response was “you will have to wait, I’m doing my fuel expense at the moment” the cadets then had to have an hour of their lesson wasted on some other unimportant task they had already done before.

The above does not even mention home to duty, as a staff cadet who lives far enough away to claim that if I were staff, how do you think it feels when I am trying to teach a lesson to younger cadets, after driving to the Sqn without asking for any money back from the Corps, paying a subscription every month, to then be told when I need a bit of help that they are to busy doing their fuel expenses. I feel used. As many other staff cadets do.

There is then also things like going to the bar on a camp. Staff do it. Yet staff cadets who are doing the same jobs and have the same responsibilities as Civilian Instructors are told to go back to their dorm with lights out at the same time as every other cadet. How is that fair?

The issue surrounding staff cadet service is a very important, yet rarely talked about by staff or indeed the chain of command. I remember a while ago there was a survey about people thoughts on ending cadet service at 18. Instead of asking me or any of the other staff cadets I know, it was given to OC’s and adult staff who hadn’t been staff cadets for years. How can you get a truly accurate feel for people opinions when you don’t ask those actually serving in that role?

Feel free to counter argument anything I have articulated, I am very busy at this time so please don’t expect a reply immediately.

Cheers!

5 Likes
40

The easy option to stop all this is to end cadet service at 18. At 18 you are legally an adult and to continue this, is just a nonsense. Potentially you could have an 18 year old member of HM Forces assisting you in someway who has all the legal rights and respnsibilities of an adult but not a 19 year old cadet. This is madness.

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41

The easier option is to shut down the organisation and walk away…