Our current standard is rather tatty. I’m looking to order a new one. While they all seem to follow a fairly similar design, I’ve seen a few wildly different ones, and I’ve failed to find anywhere what the actual regulations are regarding the design of a squadron standard.
Can anyone point me in the right direction for where the approved design is laid out?
Maybe these guys have an idea?
http://www.newtonnewtonflags.com/ceremonial-standard-air-training-corps.htm
The ATC ones shown do seem to have a standard design.
They are Banners, not Standards 
You can find the regulations and design in ACP20, Pers108, Annex C. It used to be in ACP20B Admin Instructions and rather than find a new home for it they now have it in the Personnel Instructions ACP!
[quote=“MikeJenvey” post=16293]Maybe these guys have an idea?
http://www.newtonnewtonflags.com/ceremonial-standard-air-training-corps.htm
The ATC ones shown do seem to have a standard design.[/quote]
Never trust a commercial company to make a banner to an approved design. They don’t always have access to the correct information and even if they do, they will still make pretty much anything you ask for, whether it is officially approved or not.
Utter madness! “Let’s just put it in with personnel instructions…” :ohmy:
This is from the same school of document hosting that put our dress regs on the e-learning site, remember.
[quote=“incubus” post=16295]1. They are Banners, not Standards
Personnel Instructions. Of course, so logical!
[quote=“talon” post=16296][quote=“MikeJenvey” post=16293]Maybe these guys have an idea?
http://www.newtonnewtonflags.com/ceremonial-standard-air-training-corps.htm
The ATC ones shown do seem to have a standard design.[/quote]
Never trust a commercial company to make a banner to an approved design. They don’t always have access to the correct information and even if they do, they will still make pretty much anything you ask for, whether it is officially approved or not.[/quote]
Quite possibly - but bearing in mind that the all the ATC designs seem to match, it is reasonable to suggest that they are “standard.”
The site also shows an example of a banner with a separate badge in the corner position (as per ACP):
http://www.newtonnewtonflags.com/ceremonial-standard-104-city-cambridge.htm
However, from the ACP:
https://sharepoint.bader.mod.uk/QM/ACPs/ACP%20020%20-%20Personnel%20Regulations.pdf
[quote][b]DESIGN
[/b]2. Existing banners may continue to be used until they wear out but all new or replacement banners are to:
a. Be of RAF blue heavy silk or artificial silk.
b. Be not larger than 2’ 6” on the pike and 3’ 6” in breadth.
c. Bear the ATC badge in a central position with any local authority badge, RAFA badge or device, in a corner position. No other badge or device is to be included in the design. The squadron name and number or the wing name may be included in the design above or below the
ATC badge.
d. Be carried on a pike not exceeding 7’ in length.[/quote]
…&
[quote]AUTHORITY TO OBTAIN WING OR SQUADRON BANNERS
[quote=“jagen” post=16299]Obliged. Banners. I stand corrected. Though the RAF have ‘Squadron Standards’ don’t they? Does anyone know the difference, out of interest?
[/quote]
A more expert answer may appear, but in this context the Banner is just a lower order ‘flag’ than the Standard or Colour. Colours, Standards, and Guidons used in the Armed Forces are consecrated, whereas it would be very unusual for a Cadet Force banner to be consecrated (though they are sometimes blessed).
[quote=“talon” post=16301][quote=“jagen” post=16299]Obliged. Banners. I stand corrected. Though the RAF have ‘Squadron Standards’ don’t they? Does anyone know the difference, out of interest?
[/quote]
A more expert answer may appear, but in this context the Banner is just a lower order ‘flag’ than the Standard or Colour. Colours, Standards, and Guidons used in the Armed Forces are consecrated, whereas it would be very unusual for a Cadet Force banner to be consecrated (though they are sometimes blessed).[/quote]
The protocol is listed in the ACP - & IIRC from my quick scan through earlier, banners are not saluted (but should be recognised by “attention”).
[quote=“MikeJenvey” post=16302] banners are not saluted (but should be recognised by “attention”).[/quote]With the notable exception of the Banner of the Air Training Corps which is consecrated and is afforded compliments.
Thanks for the replies.
So the next question: they seem to come in two standard colours: pale blue, as our old one is, or make-your-eyes-bleed cyan. As evident here:
Presuming it’s allowed, I’d rather have the former than the latter.
Cadet Direct (don’t worry, I’m not going to use them!) quotes the ‘correct’ MoD Pantone colours as RGB 109-186-549. This looks like it will produce the bleeding eyed version to me. Wikipedia puts RAF Blue RGB at 93-138-168 which looks more like it, but seems a bit dark. The RAFA Style Guide says RAF blue is 0-47-95, which is obviously wrong. Does anyone have any answer here?
[quote=“jagen” post=16304]Thanks for the replies.
So the next question: they seem to come in two standard colours: pale blue, as our old one is, or make-your-eyes-bleed cyan. As evident here:
Presuming it’s allowed, I’d rather have the former than the latter.
Cadet Direct (don’t worry, I’m not going to use them!) quotes the ‘correct’ MoD Pantone colours as RGB 109-186-549. This looks like it will produce the bleeding eyed version to me. Wikipedia puts RAF Blue RGB at 93-138-168 which looks more like it, but seems a bit dark. The RAFA Style Guide says RAF blue is 0-47-95, which is obviously wrong. Does anyone have any answer here?[/quote]
Not to mention those horrible cyan things have the scrolls the wrong shape. Note they are horizontal with pointed ends folded behind, the old standards have curved scrolls with wrapped ends.
[quote=“Baldrick” post=16306][quote=“jagen” post=16304]Thanks for the replies.
[/quote]
Not to mention those horrible cyan things have the scrolls the wrong shape. Note they are horizontal with pointed ends folded behind, the old standards have curved scrolls with wrapped ends.[/quote]
as perfectly shown by the image…pale(faded blue) have the “correct” scrolls
[quote=“MikeJenvey” post=16302][quote=“talon” post=16301][quote=“jagen” post=16299]Obliged. Banners. I stand corrected. Though the RAF have ‘Squadron Standards’ don’t they? Does anyone know the difference, out of interest?
[/quote]
A more expert answer may appear, but in this context the Banner is just a lower order ‘flag’ than the Standard or Colour. Colours, Standards, and Guidons used in the Armed Forces are consecrated, whereas it would be very unusual for a Cadet Force banner to be consecrated (though they are sometimes blessed).[/quote]
The protocol is listed in the ACP - & IIRC from my quick scan through earlier, banners are not saluted (but should be recognised by “attention”).[/quote]
I don’t have access so I can’t check if it is the same for ATC banners, but ACF banners are saluted by the receiver when they are handed from person to person.
Nope - not for squadron, wing or regional ATC banners.
