Squadron Shooting "Syllabus"

  1. If you were developing a Squadron Shooting “Syllabus” to fit into your training programme, how would it look?

  2. What training would you give at each level?

  3. What time frame would you give between “progression” from No.8 shooting to full bore?

  4. How would you handle the cadets that have achieved “the top” ie corps marksman, how can you develop them post ISCRM/CISSAM Comps?

  5. Would you consider separate nights/days only open to “the elite” to develop shooting teams/better individuals?

Please think about the questions and imagine that you have access to Air Rifle/25m ranges and regular full-bore shooting on a Sqn with a few qualified staff RCOs/SAAIs/WIs etc.

Your Wing shooting officer may have something of use to help you with your enquiry.

  1. I am lucky as I have a range, and can shoot fairly constantly. I also have sufficent WIs/RCOs/ARDs to run this concurrantly with most other activities the squadron runs. I generally work on the principle that all should be able, or at least have access to shooting, and that a rolling programme of everyone having a go is fair and reasonable. Those at the lower end of the ability spectrum, or those just qualified will have a plink, those at the higher end will spend more time honing their skills for the higher level marksman.

  2. What level? Marksman level, or weapon level? In general, I prefer to get as much 1-1 coaching as possible, and to get the other firers involved in coaching.

  3. 6-12 months, depending on age and ability.

  4. Don’t know, haven’t got any there… yet. On my last squadron we used them to assist coaching other younger cadets, and progressing them through BCC and WI (when cadets could). Some coaching courses are still open to cadets

  • this is always a good place to start.
  1. Yes - if you want to win silverware! A shooting team would surely have time to train seperately, as you would set time aside for a drill team.

They’re too busy :evil:

ideal world?

with 3-5 Cadets
on a Sqn night i would consider the Air Rifle
handful of nights going through
-the air rifle (prescribed lessons & WHT)
-marksmanship
-range familisation (what will be seen, heard and expected)
with all trained:

  • nominate a Friday/suitable non-Cadet night at Sqn for 3 hours of practice to give an appreciation of what to expect from a range detail and from the rifle
    repeat enough times to see an improvement in shot

repeat the above with No8 (air rifle practise running along side out of Parade nights)

after the point of WHT book a day’s shooting at 25m range (open to all qualifed not just your current syndicate!)

for anything else it would be a weekend for me (likely to be working with a neighbouring Sqn) offering
-two days of L98 training
-one day of L81 training
Cadet either chosing their preferred route or encouraged depending on ability (those with clear natural ability pushed towards L81 to be streamed into Bisley style comps)

L98

  • followed by a day’s shooting on local 25m barrack range within a month of training (can run alongside No8 shooting)
  • encourage cadets to attend Wing shooting, applying the same skills over greater ranges with potential scenarios (firing, make safe, advance, firing)
    L81 - encourage cadets to attend Wing shooting, applying the same skills over greater ranges with larger rifle

again in the ideal world i would expect Cadets to have moved from complete begineer to “improved shot” on air rifle within 3 months, with the same time frame for No8

anything else would be dependant on need/interest and numbers of staff availabilty

i would hope for at least 1 air rifle shooting session a month and No8/L98 every 3 months

however in the real world we either have a lack of available Staff or training offered is over subscribed or recieves little to no interest from the Cadets or most frustratingly there is little enthusiasm to go shooting once trained!

I meant that I was exploring the possibility of tying training on various weapon types into the classification levels e.g.

Air Rifle - Second Class Cadet
Number 8 - First Class Cadet
L98A2 - Leading Cadet
L81A2 - Senior Cadet

I’ll come back to the other points later as they’re valid but being at work its difficult to formulate a lengthy reply!

Why do you think that is the case? Is it down to a lack of enthusiasm from the instructor? The demographics of your cadets? or do they see shooting as a “boring activity” due to Call of Duty etc?

[quote=“Leeroy” post=606][quote=“perry mason” post=601]

  1. What level? Marksman level, or weapon level? In general, I prefer to get as much 1-1 coaching as possible, and to get the other firers involved in coaching.
    [/quote]

I meant that I was exploring the possibility of tying training on various weapon types into the classification levels e.g.

Air Rifle - Second Class Cadet
Number 8 - First Class Cadet
L98A2 - Leading Cadet
L81A2 - Senior Cadet[/quote]

That is pretty much how we roll - although without the Air Rifle.

We also progress cadets who show sufficient talent onto the NSWs as a progression from No.8. Corps Coaching COurse is an option post ISCRM.

Is that offered by your local SATT?

Corps Coaching Course is run by the SDT and is on the L81. Runs concurrently with the Shooting Academy just prior to ISCRM.

My CWO has just applied to attend.

[quote=“redowling” post=615]Corps Coaching Course is run by the SDT and is on the L81. Runs concurrently with the Shooting Academy just prior to ISCRM.

My CWO has just applied to attend.[/quote]

Sorry I misread it… thought it said a No.8 Coaching Course

Thought you might have done! Our SATT still run the BCC which I believe staff cadets can attend.

Yeah its not something us northerners can do as No. 1 SATT doesn’t offer that course.

1)Jnr Cdt - Intro to weapons (explain different types, what they’re used for and their differences)
1st Class - Air rifle/.22 trained and WHTed, first rounds shot. Over the next year get them up to a decent standard with the .22
Leading - Offer them progression to L98/L81 - get them to choose which. Train them on both, then see which they prefer?
Senior - Get them consistency on whichever they’ve chosen. Get them to ISCRM/CISSAM
Master/Instructor - Continuation of above, but let them develop as coaches too.

  1. Standard parade night shooting for .22 for everyone. Work on a list basis, take the next 2/4 each night until you’ve got through them all.
    For everyone else, if you have the staff run 1 weekend a month alternating between L98 and L81. Without the staff, run every other month.

3)If they join at 13, then 1.5 years. If not, then I feel it depends on the cadet. Assess each one once they’re a 1st class shot (or whatever their 3822 says) and only then move them up.

  1. Get them on the Corps Coaching Course. Get them assisting in the range (Safety Supervisor or even just observing).

  2. If you want to win things, then yes. Friday night shooting was popular with us at one point.

Be very wary of that…

Be very wary of that…[/quote]

Indeed.

Cadets can not act as safety supervisors any more.

They can coach, be general go-fer but not safety sup (or ammo ord for that matter).

Those jobs must be done by CFAVs.

First thing on my list would be the SF role GPMG and its beaten zone.

I’ll come back to the other points later as they’re valid but being at work its difficult to formulate a lengthy reply!

Why do you think that is the case? Is it down to a lack of enthusiasm from the instructor? The demographics of your cadets? or do they see shooting as a “boring activity” due to Call of Duty etc?[/quote]

typically there is so much effort put into the training it isnt followed by any practical so it is rare that a Cadet gets to shoot soon after passing their WHT (by soon i mean within a month)

when the chance does come around there enthusiasm/interest has dissolved so we end up with little uptake! or it comes too late so requires a re-take of the WHT
my annoyance is the lack of shooting opportunities though. this was correctly addressed however. we had a definate need for training as we had such a small number trained.
but now we have ample numbers to make a range day worthwhile the “system” hasn’t caught up and is still rolling out training…

[quote=“Leeroy” post=606]I meant that I was exploring the possibility of tying training on various weapon types into the classification levels e.g.

Air Rifle - Second Class Cadet
Number 8 - First Class Cadet
L98A2 - Leading Cadet
L81A2 - Senior Cadet[/quote]

Hampshire & IOW and Thames Valley Wings use a Perfect 10 sysem which follows a “progress against classfication”

see http://www.hantsatc.com/perfect-ten

they do with us although i personally dont know any cadets who have!

this is what teh Sqn does my Gf is at. they have a 2 lane range so take two Cadets off the list, working their way down from the top. if the Cadet isnt there that night they miss out until their turn comes around again…seems to work for them. they are shooting 7nights out of 8 a month i’d estimate which gets through their whole Sqn in 3-4 months

Be very wary of that…[/quote]

can’t see the issue myself. if they are mature enough to attend the ARD course and collect a “pass” then why not?

Cadets can’t do the ARD course… thats the snag. I think they should be able to (post-18) but they can’t.

[quote=“perry mason” post=637]
Cadets can not act as safety supervisors any more.

They can coach, be general go-fer but not safety sup (or ammo ord for that matter).

Those jobs must be done by CFAVs.[/quote]

With the relevant qualifications (Check PAM 21-C).