So, as my username states, I’m a Cdt (hopefully getting promoted but that looks extremely unlikely) and my sqn is experiencing some niggling problems, particularly between cadets.
As I’m acting Cpl, I’ve been told to assess the situation in the squadron and evaluate to an extent for my Corporal interviews. We have three interviews, one with the cadet NCOs, another with the SWO and the last with the OC.
However, we have some problems which I’m not sure how to address at the interviews. How can I address them without being expelled from the application process.
ah yes, how to tell the interviewer that the interviewer is the problem without failing the interview.
personally, i see little point in trying - easiest thing to do is to ask the OC for a closed door chat, explain the situation and tell him that unless he’s prepared to circumvent his own process (stupid process by the way - input and opinions yes, hurdle no…) and appoint you - or not - on the basis of his impressions of you, then you’re not interested in being assessed for promotion.
Nearest sqn is just under half a mile away. OC of said sqn is ex Adjt from my sqn. Would be a little petty to go there just because of that. I just feel that I have to be honest in the interview. The trickiest thing to encounter is a Cpl (promoted about 5 months ago. Came back from annual camp with Cpl tapes, no apparent training.) who actively has an irrational dislike to me. Just at a crossroads, I really want it so badly.
the problem you’ve got is that if your Cpl fails you - properly, as in ‘he’s a complete knobber’ fails you, any action you take looks like sour grapes, and you’ll be further away than you are are now. making a move - whether to another Sqn, or just into your OC’s office for a chat - before that gives you a better chance.
personally, i’d question why you think moving Sqn’s would be petty: if you’ve got an idiot for an OC who then appoints idiots as cadet NCO’s, thats not a minor problem, thats a big problem.
Sorry for the rant but I’m a tad annoyed and bitter.
Well,I wholeheartedly agree with what you’re saying. By “assessing the situation” I mean we are asked what do we think of the current jnr cadet cohort. I suppose I can agree with you saying that the OC has appointed spanners. Reason for this:
1)DofE hike, two corporals from squadron on hike (another from a different Sqn). I was the only girl, all boys are wing rugby so big strapping lads. The three Cpls decided in the morning that we would skip a lunch break and just tab on. I puked three times, sick dripping down my face, still walking on. Only stopped when I fainted. Moaned on that we were over the time limit. We we three hours early and I was ill in the end up.
Then there’s the Cpl who dislikes me. She’s very stuck up shall I say,has obvious favourites. She just always seems to undermine me and I get b*llocked for everything, even if it wasn’t me. She is the camp promotion.
Also, another cadet going through the promotion process has heard that another fellow cadet wanting Cpl rank has already been chosen and we have been made to go through a process. I can now see with the benefit of hindsight that this is true. On the night of the most recent Cpl promotion (3 months ago), she was interviewed by the CWO (now aged out) and WO (ATC), that she will be imminently promoted providing she acts as duty Cpl for ONE parade night. Promotion process ends in Feb and she has done the bare minimum.
I am going to ask did you report the DofE incident?
I have rejected 2 NCOs from qualifying on their bronze for the same thing as it isn’t in the ethos or spirit of the corps or the DofE namely teamwork!
I would discuss with your staff, all the issues and be blunt tell them you want to be an NCO but as it is you feel as if everyone has got it in for you, you need to transfer to become one!
as for getting cadets to interview you for NCO you OC needs shot for that one!
I once heard of an OC asking every interview candidate, “if there were two places for the promotion and you had one, who else should I promote?” They all said X so he promoted X.
I know a sqn Ldr who was asked by a cadet when he was OC of a sqn. in a jovial manner “what’s the going rate for me to get cpl”
To which he replied a large pepperoni pizza…
Guess what was on his desk the next night…
The way the OC did it As described by Baldrick I think he was seeing who had the respect of the cadets, the way described in my opinion could be open to abuse of the old mates club
Reading the OP, just how much are you getting paid?
Most jobs that require 3 interviews are normally for high 5 or 6 figure salaries before the dp. My promotion process has always been speak to staff, see what the candidates have done on the squadron, do they volunteer or do they need to be asked, watch them personally and then with the senior adult NCO speak to the cadets to see if they feel they are ready for the role. I would lay money that the questions would be pretty similar from all 3 interviewers, which imo pretty much negates the process.
No disrespect but you are a teenager and imo this process seems OTT in the extreme. I’m surprised they don’t want you to fully plan, organise and execute an activity or something similar or sort out all current problems on the squadron.
Problems on the squadron are not your concern IMO to fix and TBH you shouldn’t have to evaluate or worry unduly about “problems”. I can’t think of one squadron that doesn’t problems among the cadets generally related to personality clash or over-excited, hormone enriched cadets of all ranks doing things they shouldn’t. They are and have been part and parcel of any youth organisation or school and thus far no one has come up with a cure all. Trying to ‘sort it out’ is a banging your head against the wall exercise for staff, so expecting a 14-16 year old to have some magic solution is BS.
Why would you want or even think about talking about the problems. If asked you just say I don’t know enough to be able to comment.
We had a supervisor who would pop up at times. He was there when I collapsed/vomited. Was basically told to get on with it and stop being a princess by another Cpl. Didn’t help that I had to carry the first aid ,pegs and our unwanted binbags. Carrying that must’ve easily been almost 2 stone. Doesn’t help that I’m about 7 stone wet through. Might do another hike, with the sqn babies,
I’ve had to do two nights on duty, two sports nights (not my strongest point, I’m better at drill), go over drill with junior cadets, two leadership exercises. Latter leadership exercise I had all three corporals, all wearing their tapes. WO (ATC) and Cdt FS taking notes and conferring between each other, the other five cadets vying for corporal and the 'extroverted’junior cadets, including one who has been going 5 months absolute maximum and is in his words ‘putting the finishing touches on his Cpl application’.
Kid’s barely started 1st class syllabus and can’t march! Worst thing is, I knew him before ATC and he was a sort of cheeky chappie type,now he’s just plain arrogant! He got the ‘best jnr cadet’ award at dining in night and now believes his own hype! He pays Cpl £5 p/w to do his uniform.
Terribly sorry for such a brazen rant, now you see what problems lie on my sqn
I take it your squadron is about to or has stopped for christmas? If it has then Take the time off unwind and relax, yes it’s frustrating but do it for your own sanity!
If not ask to speak to your WO in private,
Tell them you would like to discuss a few things with them and explain there are a few issues your having
Such as other cadets getting preferential treatment from the NCOs and the cadet paying to have his uniform done, would it be possible to discuss this with them in the new year…
Remember this time of year all the staff are busy with families and other stuff so telling them now means they could forget (don’t tell anyone but we are hunan😜) but if you tell them you would like to discuss next year then they will listen to you now but in the new year go along and tell them everything how you feel but also ask the WO in their opinion what do you need to do to better yourself as a cadet?
It’s a 2 way street the WO will need to find what issues you have but perhaps you need to find out what issues there might be with you. maybe you do come across to people as a little princess, so laugh it off when talking to the WO and say " I don’t want people thinking I’m some sort of little princess, I won’t to get better and more involved as a part of the squadron more"
Go to the WO first if it’s not getting resolved then go up to the CO but any WO will get something done about it
Umm… What are the squadron CIs doing? CIs are a great conduit for this sort of problem; hopefully old and wise, but also not part of the discipline system. They can listen to the cadet from a non threatening position and they probably have the OC’s ear as well.
If someone is as hacked off as TheCadet is, the adult staff should have noticed this by now. The fault might lie with the system/corporal or it might be unrealistic expectations on the part of TheCadet, in either case someone in the staff should have noticed and started the talking.
Is it something in modern society that seems to make kids feel aggrieved at the slightest thing and unable to function normally?
This seems to be a lot aggro over nothing.
Frankly if it’s bothering you that much leave, given the pressures (about far more important things) you will face over the next 10 years this isn’t worth gettiing excited about in the grand scheme. If it was school then yes, because what goes on there can seriously affect what happens, but not in the ATC. As suggested it’s Christmas, probably a 2 week shutdown, so relax and think about whether the ATC is the place for you.
So what if a cadet pays someone to do their uniform? More fool them and good luck to the one getting paid, Alan Sugar would be proud of him. Maybe you could get paid by him to do exams or something. So what if they got best Jnr Cadet, sounds like sour grapes that you perhaps didn’t. What does [quote=“TheCdt, post:11, topic:2056”] I had all three corporals, all wearing their tapes [/quote] mean. If it is that you were explaining or leading the exercise, so what? Just because you’re leading/explaining doesn’t mean you are better, it just means someone decided to do that way. We get all cadets to take a lead role, regardless of who is in the team.
Whatever you may think of yourself you are a small part (like all cadets and volunteer staff) in the overall history of your squadron and the Corps, some have a bigger effect but normally by accident rather than design, but once we leave within a few years we are all but forgotten.
I had a FS leave about 7 years ago (they thought they should have been a CWO) who told everyone that when he left the squadron would fall apart … it didn’t and in fact when he left it worked better. I was glad to see the back of them TBPH as they had become a drain on sqn morale and p!$$ing staff off. He appeared at an event and was greeted by one of the staff with ‘we’re still here’, it passed him by, but made us smile.
Funny, I thought you were supposed to enjoy DofE as AT. Not be beasted like the hills phase of SAS selection. Your Cpls are a disgrace, but what else can you expect from rugby types?. And as for a 3 stage promotion process to Cpl, that’s ridiculous.
If this were going on in my Coy or detachment, I would expect staff responsible to be suspended. I think you might be better off going to the other squadron, as its all gone a bit ‘Lord of the Flies’ at your current one.
Cadet promotion criteria should be fair, transparent and independent. My Coy/Cty has a simple one: 1* passed, camp of 5 days duration minimum completed and passed a JNCO cadre. Tick those boxes, get L/Cpl. Full Cpl on completion of JCIC (Junior Cadet Instructor Cadre)
No local/Det hoops to jump through. No bureaucracy. No patently unfair process designed only to discourage cadets.
The OC that allows this to exist is probably a sociopathic bully trying to live out some Napoleonic fantasy of iron command. It’s what I’d expect from the Hitler Youth, not the ATC.
Do you simply not care anymore? These kids are paying good wedge to be part of your ‘premier youth movement’ and you seem to think that this is somehow an acceptable state of affairs? A girl puking her ring up on AT? Staff and cadet NCOs who do not care a damn about the welfare of their charges or their team? An obviously corrupted promotion process?
I want to know what happened to the ATC I was in in the 80s? Teamwork, mates, best friends (many of whom I am still best friends with) exciting adventures and camps and hilarious times too. All replaced by Bureaucracy, bullshit, bullying, with little or no shooting, flying or gliding.
It’s been taken over by uncaring cynical managers with sociopathic tendencies
The teamwork and mates is still there but I would suggest get real as there have always been the minority of gung-ho [IDIOTS] around. I can remember them from my early days as a cadet in the 70s and have seen them pop up ever since.
In this example like so many, where are the parents? Why hasn’t this girl spoken to mum and or dad or carer(s) and in response to the “how was it dear?” when she got home, been visibily upset by the incident? It would be a rare parent (in this day and age) that in this day and age get bent out of shape about piffling matters, ‘cos it’s their kid’s right’ or similar nonsense, to let something like this pass.
If any of our kids came home and said they had been treated like this, we would have been seeking a chat with whoever was in charge.
It’s not always possible for kids to speak to people in authority, so saying she should have piped up, might just not be an option.
Just to clarify, I have told my parents who, in turn ,asked the OC about the promotion process. My dad asked the OC and she said “We run a competitive process for Cpl promotion”. My mum asked OC if it was unfair, “We can ensure that all cadets get an equal chance”. They said I found it a quite unfair, OC dismissed it. Just rubbished all my thoughts ans findings. Great.
