Why is this like so many things made more awkward for no other reason than making it awkward.
If you want D1 then it should be no more than a couple of lessons in a suitable vehicle and a short test to make sure you’re OK on the road and not the palaver that it is, given there are an awful lot of people with the automatic right. This would eliminate all this other BS in an instant.
I have to speak up in defence of the D1 course.
I arrived on Sunday night, and was on my way home by 11am Wednesday. Yes, it’s a couple of mid week days away from home, but only slightly longer than the length of a FC or AT weekend.
Given that a civvy provider can’t get you through the test any quicker, and it will cost you the best part of £500, I think doing the D1 course is a bit of a no brainer.
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Part of the fun of getting a D1 is not just the “ok on the road” bit, but the pulling off and then on to the road. D1 is a PCV licence, and so drivers need to have that in mind. D1 is not just driving a transit van with 16 rear seats, and so the test isn’t can you drive a larger vehicle; as a PCV licence it should be driven like a bus and thus all elements buses do are included in the test, namely pulling up at a bus stop “correctly” and then pulling away from a bus stop “correctly” in combination with a driving style that matches PCV expectations and the limitations for the vehicles (ie speed limits)
i agree with M_V_L - it isn’t a challenging process but at the same time should be taken seriously. I too arrived Sunday and heading home Wednesday lunchtime
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If that is the case why is it that pre 1997 licence holders have D1 on their licences and can drive a minibus as I have on several occasions, without any other nonsense?
I don’t see the relevance of PCV, from what I experience with bus drivers is they just pull out into traffic because they are in a bus and nuts to anyone else, which is not quite how I was told when learning to drive and have practiced in my 33 years of driving. So if it means doing the D1 course means driving like you own the road, I’d rather not be involved. As for stopping at a bus stop just like stopping in a car, I can’t see the difference other than size.
Do you have many elderly people standing in your car?
I get the concept of generic bus skills being taught, but surely that is only relevant to D, not to D1
Probably about as many as you get in an ATC minibus? Even my nan who was 5ft 2in would have struggled to stand upright in a minibus.
arguably so…
but the DVLA see any vehicle with more than 8 passengers as “not domestic” and thus a commercial vehicle and so treat it as such – to be commercially carrying passengers that makes it a PCV.
There is a degree of “right of way” to this – in your 33 years of driving you will recall I am sure highway code rule 223 “Buses, coaches and trams. Give priority to these vehicles when you can do so safely, especially when they signal to pull away from stops.”
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/road-users-requiring-extra-care-204-to-225
what you see as arrogance on the bus drivers part is in fact their right of way which I am sure you have been practising throughout your many years of driving…
to address the question – does anyone drive in the same manner they did during their test?
The PCV test requires the driver to pull up to the bus stop in a controlled manner, stop at the right place*, at a correct distance from the kerb (ie an easy step on/off the vehicle) . Pulling away requires a process akin to a pilots checklist, checking there are no more passengers for the bus, ensuring the door is closed, passengers are seated, indicating, checking mirrors and blind spot and pulling out.
The test also requires a driving style with passengers in mind, just because the vehicle can go over speed bumps at 25mph doesn’t mean that it should, or round the roundabout at 30mph as passenger comfort is compromised. There is also speed restrictions to consider, 50 on a single carriageway road is the “national speed limit” and should be adhered to.
Oddly there is a “reverse into a garage” manoeuvre which was done at the airfield into a coned area presumably to simulate parking in a bus station or yard.
We were told, in Hull at least, the test, including the routes that can be chosen, the bus stops which are used, are identical to that used for the D licence – this is certainly the case with the theory test as it covers aspects of a service bus service or 55 seater coach which operate very differently to a Transit minibus.
The D1 test is a car test with PCV element thrown in, and includes questions about a PCV that an untrained B Driver wouldn’t know.
*in Hull the town where the Leconsfield tests are taken, bus stops have a raised step/kerb at bus stops which should be aligned with the minibus side door to achieve the “pass”.
Apologies for resurrecting an old thread, but I didn’t want to create yet another Permit 19 thread!
I’ve just been Whatsapped a policy document dated 28th May, apparently from the MT SME, which states that HQAC will no longer be issuing Section 19 permits, and that if Squadrons require a S19 permit going forward, they will need to apply to the Traffic Commissioner directly. Further more, all S19 permits are to be returned to HQAC by October 20th at the latest.
It also states: “RAFAC policy is that the organisation must follow the DVSA recommendation regarding inspections and they [SOV inspections] should be carried out at least every 10 weeks. The Civilian Committee, in conjunction with Sqn OCs, must ensure that a safety inspection is carried out before it’s used, if the SOV is found to be used rarely.”
Did I miss the release of this document? If not, it doesn’t give us a lot of time to get our house in order…
I thought they wanted all applications to go via the MT SME so that she could provide assurance by confirming Tax/MOT etc. it was also the easiest way of HQAC to get a database of SOVs
That’s what I thought, which is why I’m surprised I’ve not heard of this document earlier. Apparently, it will no longer be the case…
" SUMMARY
10 The Civilian Committee, in conjunction with Sqn OCs, will take on full responsibility for the management and control of the SOV (whether it runs under a Section 19 Permit or not) and must ensure they follow the guidance within this document which has been extrapolated from the GOV.UK website.
-
The guidelines for the safety checks are required regardless whether a Section 19 Permit is in place.
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Section 19 Permits must be applied for directly through the Traffic Commissioner and all permits issued by RAFAC HQ must be returned nlt 30 Oct 2020 to Logs MT SME and Assurance.
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The Civilian Committee, in conjunction with Sqn OCs, are responsible for recording all driver competence checks and driver training as well as licence details. They are to ensure that only qualified, responsible and competent individuals drive the SOVs.
ADDITIONAL INFORMATION
- Confirmation of this revised policy will be published in ACTO 150. Additional information,
if required, may be sought from Logs MT SME and Assurance.
That screams of this is too hard for us…
Let’s off load to someone else.
I would hope then that the MT post at HQAC will be removed as there is very little else required to be done by them?
I did wonder if the SME was due to move on, and there was no funding for a replacement, but your absolutely correct with your first statement.
The big drama, I think, will be the mandated 10-weekly inspections. I expect that will bump up the running costs to an unsustainable level for most units.
Is there any detail on the inspections? Or could it be that we do it as it’s quite basic, check of oil, tyre tread etc.
Which we’re all meant to do each time before we drive any vehicle anyway 
Don’t forget lights too!
What’s the document name, date and version number please. So I can find on sharepoint.
I havent heard of this at all.
Petrol
Engine
Tyres
Radiator
Oil
Lights
PETROL.
Just found it on GM Wing’s sharepoint site. It doesn’t appear to be anywhere else (although that could be a reflection on the search function, more than anything!).
RAFAC Logs MT SME & Assurance policy note 001
And horn. Preferably when your co-driver is checking the fluid levels under the bonnet! 
It looks like HQAC are using the DFT guide as the baseline - basically an MOT every 10 weeks, or after a period of the SOV being out of use.
Was sent to OC Wgs in W&W on 07 Jul. This is the kind of thing that should have been in an IBN to be honest.
I very much agree. Was Dawn too busy creating awards for her friends to bother letting us know about this, I wonder? 
As soon as this is made policy (and I’d assume that it would be soon, given the stated deadline of 20/10/2020), a lot of people are going to have to do a lot of work if they want to use their vehicles to move cadets around…
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Erm… well that’s pretty much all SOVs gone then.