So...what made you go from cadet to uniformed staff...?

Adult Staff The Staff Mess
21

[quote=“tango_lima” post=6034][I guess what I’m getting at with the Reserve question (and here’s where everyone gets horribly offended) is: if your motivation was to be an officer/wear the uniform rather than your motivation being to be a youth worker, why didn’t you want to do it in a more ‘real’ way?

To me, when I do stuff with the ATC, my motivation is the positive feeling you get from taking the average teenager and helping to turn them into a better adult, while my motivation in joining the Reserves was to wear the uniform and be a part of the Armed Forces.

I can understand the idea that the CFAV stuff is a more ongoing/constant commitment rather than the Reserves continuation training followed by periods of mobilisation/regular service model, which probably suits people better who definitely want a hobby.

I suppose for me, the sense of ‘wanting to wear the uniform’ is linked entirely with the sense of ‘wanting to fight wars’, which is a really bad way of phrasing what I’m trying to describe, but I’m struggling to put the concept into words.
[/quote]
I think I get what you are saying with the wearing uniform = wanting to fight

However for me
wearing the uniform = wanting to serve,
I would predict a greater proportion of recruits are applying through patriotism, wanting to “serve Queen and Country” rather than to fire at an “enemy”.
Despite being deemed medically unfit for Military Service, I am still permitted to wear a uniform a “do my bit” to serve my Country.

for me the difference between being an ATC Staff member and the Scouts (or other non MOD Supported youth organisation) is the not only the type of organisation, the difference in opportunities (not just for the Cadets/Scouts but also Staff - in that i include training) and the obvious difference in funding, but i feel a sense of pride and “service” wearing the RAF(ATC) uniform.

in the loosest sense wearing a ATC/VRT uniform is the best way i can "serve my Queen and country"
i can gain MOD recognised qualifications on MOD courses, i hold a MOD recognised ID card, i am recognised via Medals for my “Service” and as others have mentioned i am recognised by the public as a member of the armed forces.

Remember not all uniformed members fight.
To quote a recruitment talk I recall sitting in “even if you’re not working on the front line, and very few [RAF] trades are, whatever you choose to do in the RAF you’re assisting the ability to provide drop a bomb somewhere”
– nowadays they prefer the terms “Air Power” as that includes humanitarian support and more PC, but it is true.
Any “generic trade” such as chef, admin officer, driver, nurse, or AFCO recruiter do not wear their uniform to “fight” but in their own way through “service” support the ability to do so – ensuring the pilots are well fed, the mechanics are paid and have somewhere to live, to deliver fuel for the aircraft, to see to their medical needs…none of that is “fighting” but serving their country.

all members of 22 Group aren’t wearing a uniform to personally fight. I am clearly not a uniformed members of staff in the ATC to fight in wars, but I can serve my country, working to assist potential recruits to be better placed to join the Armed forces (thus a link to “dropping the bomb”) and in a more “community based” sense the citizenship side of being in the ATC,
so although I can see the thought pattern dismiss your logic that wearing uniform = fighting in wars.

22

on the topic of “natural progression” from Cadet > forces

we must remember that we (ATC) are not a recruitment agency, there is never any expectation to join the RAF/Armed Forces upon leaving as a Cadet in much the same way a St John’s Cadet isnt expected to become a Paramedic or players in the U13 football team will become professional footballers

we are at the end of the day just another youth organisation, we are better placed to encourage a career in the Armed Forces and certainly ideally suited to prepare for “military life” but we cannot be disappointed if our Cadets do not join up as that has never been an aim for the Corps

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[quote=“steve679” post=6060]on the topic of “natural progression” from Cadet > forces

we must remember that we (ATC) are not a recruitment agency, there is never any expectation to join the RAF/Armed Forces upon leaving as a Cadet[/quote]

This may well be the difference these days. As I said earlier, we never looked at any uniformed ‘career progression’ after cadet service other than joining the military for real. The ATC (and SCC and ACF) were indeed a ‘recruitment agency’ and actively encouraged people to join. In the 70s, a good proportion of ATC cadets did join up and if I recall, something like 60% of airmen and over 80% of officers were ex cadets. Out of my peer group, around 8 - 10 did so within 18 months of each other. Remember, we had around 100,000 people in the RAF then so good recruits were always wanted. Compare that situation with today, the RAF (and Navy and Army) doesn’t want anywhere near as many people, so there is nothing like the same emphasis on recruitment and arguably why the ACO ‘career progression’ seems attractive.

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[quote=“tango_lima” post=6058]
I think that’s exactly the type of thing I’d like to discuss on this thread…[/quote]

OK, my thoughts.

A ‘balanced’ adult staff cadre is essential. By balanced I mean having good representation from the former cadet group (career progression), ex forces Regulars and those with no military or cadet experience at all. Each group brings its own skills to the mix. Firstly, the ex cadets should bring youthful enthusiasm and aspirations. They know what the cadets want and they have just experienced the good or bad aspects of the organisation and are therefore best placed to do something about it. Secondly, as we are (like it or not) a military youth organisation, ex Regulars are highly desirable, they should bring the Service ethos and relevance to the organisation, as well as current practices in key areas. Lastly, those with no military or cadet experience have no particular axe to grind and therefore they offer refreshing alternatives.

Regrettably, I have often noticed that recruiting heavily from within perpetuates myths and bad practice. You only have to look on this site to see the wide range of comments to what should be straightforward issues; ‘we’ve always done it like that’ is an often-used expression within our organisation and should really have no place in what we do. Unfortunately, the ex Regular group can lose focus on what they are in the ACO to do. They are no longer dealing with adult servicemen and women, and some have difficulty adapting their ‘military’ approach to children. Finally, our ‘direct entry’ ex civilians can be guilty of starting some ‘myths’ because they just don’t know any different and have no experience of a uniformed organisation to fall back on.

I know that my comments above regarding a balanced staff cadre are Utopia and it should spark some comments (that was what it is intended to do). Overall, we have to make do with what we get and actually, when all is said and done, we do a pretty good job!

25

^ Spot on.

All three ‘types’ of adult staff can bring different things to the mix, exactly as you’ve listed. It does raise a question (perhaps for another thread) - do we need to do more adult recruiting?

26

Wholeheartedly agree with this!

27

If you recall, the last adult recruiting campaign was a bit of a damp squib, especially when you compared it with the ACF’s (I think it was theirs anyway).

I know that all Regulars get a Leaving the Forces book and in there it has adverts for all 3 cadet organisations. Our Regional Commandant used to write to everyone leaving the RAF and settling in his Region; he didn’t get much success though! Unfortunately, I think a lot of Regulars have become fed up with the military and therefore retaining any level of involvement, perhaps after they’ve been made redundant or not been allowed to sign on further, is the last thing they’d consider.

I guess we wouldn’t need to actively recruit from the ex-cadet group, but I think we need to be more professional in our recruiting campaigns for civvies.

28

Very fair point, the forces (well the government) do have a track record of treating serving personell poorly.

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[quote=“cygnus maximus” post=6078]I guess we wouldn’t need to actively recruit from the ex-cadet group[/quote]Exactly, which is the potential problem.

Ex-cadet recruitment is pretty much automatic, so if we don’t put any effort in then the proportion of ex-cadet staff will become larger in comparison (whilst the actual number of staff overall gets smaller.

30

visiting our Wing Conference that is exactly the CAC said.

she has been informed to raise the ACO to 50k Cadets by 2020, but she is fully aware that cannot be achieved or sustained without the adult staff to support it.
so much so she indicated with the right staff (by that i mean quality, qualified, professional, not just numbers) the organisation will breed success - it is always the best Sqns in the Wings which have the best recriutment suscess and are able to hold on to them…it is just a matter of expanding that model Corps wide so we (the ACO) are the better youth organisation to join than the Scouts or other alternatives

31

But the ex-cadet is always going to be the easier option which is probably why we’ve ended up as we are. We don’t have to actively recruit them, they understand the organisation itself and they know a bit about what they will be doing (but not enough though as has already been pointed out).

I doubt very much whether we’ll see another major recruitment campaign, such as TV adverts etc, in the near future, which is a shame as the ACF’s a few years ago was really good. I always think that the adult staff leaflets that we have are a bit ‘cheap’ and don’t give out the right message.

32

[quote=“steve679” post=6060]on the topic of “natural progression” from Cadet > forces

we must remember that we (ATC) are not a recruitment agency, there is never any expectation to join the RAF/Armed Forces upon leaving as a Cadet in much the same way a St John’s Cadet isnt expected to become a Paramedic or players in the U13 football team will become professional footballers

we are at the end of the day just another youth organisation, we are better placed to encourage a career in the Armed Forces and certainly ideally suited to prepare for “military life” but we cannot be disappointed if our Cadets do not join up as that has never been an aim for the Corps[/quote]

Sorry. I think I phrased that badly. I meant that from the point of view of ‘Cadet T_L’ the natural progression was cadet -> forces. I’m very much anti recruiting cadets and I usually tell any of them that ask me about joining up not to (but that really is a topic for another thread).

I think the ACF will always have that advantage. ‘Come and play Army!’ is always going to be a more atractive proposition to the potential CFAV with no prior experience than ‘Come and watch teenagers go gliding!’ Hence it being easier to recruit former cadets and people with a sense of ‘light blue loyalty’.

33

An interesting thought and one with some truth I suspect. If indeed true, I wonder if the ACF have a higher proportion of Walts?

34

Without doubt, yes. But the nature of the ACF makes that a lot easier too.

(Really shouldn’t let that detract from the good work of the majority of ACF CFAVs though, whatever reason they decided to become what they are)

35

The ACF campaign got a lot of responses, BUT the conversion to staff was poor. I spoke to one of our county’s staff about it and he said they got a lot of interest but only 3 new staff.

The biggest problem we have is the process from enquiry to doing it. I don’t know if this was a problem with the ACF.
There is a P Letter saying that essentially before doing anything else the prospective CI must have an interview with the Sqn Cdr and WSO. This is just an admin step and brings nothing to the process.

As for CRB, I know people who work in schools and for the council where the process is done online and takes a working week from start to finish, (it can take 2-3 full weeks for the bloody form to come from Wing) including any extra background checks that HQAC seem to obsess about, hence the 3 week delay between you getting your cert and HQAC granting you permission. There is safeguarding and then there is blatant jobsworthing.

I’d bin the BSVR, as it is pointless and brings nothing new to the process. The references have absolutely no use at all.

Then we have the actual paperwork for newbies, which seems to change regularly and seemingly requires everyone to start again if they are in process.

So before any sort of advertising campaign we need a slick paperchase, so enquiry to active is 4/5 months at the most. This should be the same timeframe for internal SNCO and VR(T) applications. But this requires off-sqn signatories to be on the ball.

I feel that the existing cadet moving across should be a single sheet, signed by Sqn Cdr and Wg Cdr and none of the other crap.

Any campaign for staff has to be national, with the adverts in national newspapers (once a fortnight for 3 months) and TV/radio and not posters and leaflets. Yes it would be expensive, but would get better results than previous efforts. BUT unless the process as above isn’t slick people will not bother.