Looking at the “SNCOs Daughter” thread, does it pose a real question in terms of membership of the Corps and is the 13 thing a bit out moded? Is there an underlying issue that those, brow beating their OC into allowing their, in the ATC’s eyes, underage children wear a uniform, are they aggrieved that their children aren’t allowed to join because we have this fixation with 13, not shared by our brethren in the ACF and SCC.
Everyone can argue the toss about maturity, but looking at my own children they were a lot more grown up/mature and receptive when they were 11/12 than some of my cadets who were 2/3/4 years their senior. When my son was 11 he was in a school uniform for a 14 year old, due to being quite tall and a solid build due to his swimming and rugby playing. He was several inches taller than several of my 13 and 14 year old cadets and he could have passed as 13 or 14 all day long. The only difference bewteen the ages was teenage mood swings.
I have, over the last 4 years, said “sorry we’ll be in touch when you hit 13”, to 19 11 and 12 year olds. This has proved to be in all but 4 cases over these 4 years a pointless email or phone call, despite early reminders, as they have lost interest/found something else to fill their time. I now question having a waiting list and doing the calling letters as such. I know 2 sqns who lodge with the ACF who have said no to under 13s and watch them pitch up at the ACF almost the following night. I know the ACF haven’t been happy about their lowered joining age, but they are happy to take on our dejected underage rejects. It’s all well and good saying we’re this or that and better than the ACF so join us, when in fact as and when the bean counters really get their hands on flying and gliding there won’t be anything to divide us, except a uniform colour, for a few years at least. Is what the ATC does worth waiting for? Going back 40 years to when I decided that I was going to join, the RAF and the opportunities offered by the Corps may have been, but in 2013 with an ever shrinking RAF, uncertainty over the future of flying in general, shooting going the same way, upcoming I imagine public money cuts, it’s not what it was.
Frankly I think we need as an organisation need to change our age of joining to something whereby we are better able to tap into youngsters’ natural enthusiasm, before they get too caught up in appeasing school statistics.
I think that you have to draw the line somewhere, although I would be cautiously in support of a school-year based system similar to that that (I think?) the ACF use.
Definitely no change to age for entry. Individual physical size or enhanced maturity might be good for a few, but certainly not for the majority.
There would have to be age restrictions in taking part in many activities (some 13 yr olds find it hard enough to hold a rifle steady for example), new uniform sizes…
A good follow-on subject GHE2, thanks. The lower age limit of around 13 is probably about right but I agree with MattB in that a school year-based entry might be advantageous (I think that’s what the CCF do already - anyone confirm?) as it allows peer groups to join together, but Prune has hit the nail on the head though; wherever you set the age, someone will ask for it to be lower.
Out of interest, I heard a rumour a while ago that the SCC had a ‘Junior Division’, 11 - 13 year-olds, similar activities to ‘mainstream’ cadets, but catering more for their physical and mental maturity levels. Is there any truth in this? Might be worth thinking about - discuss!
[quote=“special_k”]Sea Cadet Juniors do exist and from my interactions with them the activities are geared towards their maturity and physical and mental development.
From my knowledge of CCFs they take on at the beginning of the school year but tmmorris may be able to confirm[/quote]
Thanks both. I know the school my sons went to started CCF at the same time, but I wasn’t sure this was a universal thing.
I don’t have any particular issues with the idea of a junior ATC that’s separate from the main one, so long as no one expects me to have anything to do with running it!
A school year based entry would get my vote. My last intake event had 3 13 year olds from 2 schools and group of their mates, all year 8. The birthdays of the non 13s ranged from December to June and they had to be told that they could join on the next intake or the one after. Result not one of the 9 started, and it’s anyone’s guess if any of them will reappear.
For me a Year 8 entry would make sense and I just wonder what it is exactly that makes our CoC and staff in the Corps, think that what the ATC has to offer is so amazing that you have to wait until you are 13 to experience it?
The concerns about physical size are a nonsense as I knew 11 and 12 year olds (my son included) who were bigger and physically / mentally more able than a number of 13 year olds on the sqn at the time. I doubt this has altered. My son’s birthday is in July and supposedly at a disadvantage being a summer baby. He did better than many 6 to 9 months his junior all the way through school.
Having a school year entry would make recruitment a lot easier, in terms of targeting it in school.
As for a Junior ATC what would they not do to make becoming ‘Senior ATC’ an attractive option?
Having come into contact with the Junior SCC, they are merely a youth club. I would not advocate this route for the ATC as i struggle to see what we can offer that would appeal to that age group.
Moving to a system where they need to be turning 13 before 31 Aug would work adequately, especially for friendship groups coming in together, but may have implications in the off squadron activities they can partake in due to insurance cover, and as seen in the thread that has prompted this one, some OCs would overlook that.
I’ve shared an HQ with SCC and their main problem (aside from a near-complete lack of discipline) was that there is generally a MASSIVE difference in maturity between a 10/11 year-old and a 13/14 year-old. As their cadets got older, they had little desire to remain members of an equivalent of the Cubs, so often left at around 14.
[quote=“themajor” post=13270]
Moving to a system where they need to be turning 13 before 31 Aug would work adequately, especially for friendship groups coming in together, but may have implications in the off squadron activities they can partake in due to insurance cover, and as seen in the thread that has prompted this one, some OCs would overlook that.[/quote]
That would increase the age limit. Are you sure you don’t mean 12 e.g. year 8? That is the system the ACF currently use. I’m not sure what this would have to do with insurance as all members of MOD sponsored cadet forces are indemnified by the MOD for the activities listed in DIN07-148 published October 2013. Any policies for additional cover would simply have to be altered.
[quote=“talon” post=13279][quote=“themajor” post=13270]
Moving to a system where they need to be turning 13 before 31 Aug would work adequately, especially for friendship groups coming in together, but may have implications in the off squadron activities they can partake in due to insurance cover, and as seen in the thread that has prompted this one, some OCs would overlook that.[/quote]
That would increase the age limit. Are you sure you don’t mean 12 e.g. year 8? That is the system the ACF currently use. I’m not sure what this would have to do with insurance as all members of MOD sponsored cadet forces are indemnified by the MOD for the activities listed in DIN07-148 published October 2013. Any policies for additional cover would simply have to be altered.[/quote]
Not for us in the ATC it wouldn’t, this would enable some 12 yr olds to join. so on the Sep 1 the young person that had their 12th birthday on 31 Aug they would then be able to join. This is how the ages are sorted for the school year.
