Hello all
In lieu of a CFAV WO on a squadron, if an adult Sgt is appointed in the SNCO role - are they formally a Squadron Warrant Officer given they are taking up up that post?
In RAFAC terms, not automatically.
A distinction is made between rank and appointment:
- Warrant Officer (WO) is a rank. A Sergeant cannot be regarded as a WO simply because they are carrying out the senior SNCO duties on a squadron. Promotion to WO follows the normal RAFAC promotion process and criteria.
- Squadron Warrant Officer (Sqn WO) is generally an appointment that is normally held by someone who is already a WO. On many squadrons, the appointment title is used because the individual is both a WO by rank and the senior SNCO on the unit.
If there is no WO available and a Sergeant is appointed to be the senior SNCO, then in practice they are:
- the senior SNCO on the squadron;
- performing the duties normally associated with the Squadron Warrant Officer appointment;
- but they are not formally a Squadron Warrant Officer unless your Wing has specifically appointed them to that appointment.
Most Wings would simply refer to them as the Squadron SNCO, Senior SNCO, or state that they are the SNCO lead for the unit, rather than calling them the Squadron Warrant Officer. They would continue to be addressed and referred to by their substantive rank of Sergeant.
There can be some local variation in terminology between Wings, but the general RAFAC principle is that appointments do not confer rank. A Sergeant filling a WO billet does not become a WO by virtue of the post, just as a Flying Officer acting as OC Squadron does not become a Squadron Leader.
I know @AlexCorbin will probably have something to say on this but hereâs my six penny worth.
Our Wing has a couple of WOs who have taken on a command position, not Sqn WO but command of a squadron or Sector WO, who have then decided to step down after 12-18 months into a Sqn SNCO role.
My issue is that they remain as a WO, whereas a Flt Lt in a command role would step back into Fg Off rank. I know there acting/substantive argument, but in these cases no WO certificate has been received by the individual.
These should be on a role by role basis, and rolled back to FS if not in a command position. I am aware that this has gone up to RAFACWO, through RWO, but no one wants to make a decision.
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is this really a thing?
I have known people be considered a SWO either by seniority on the Unit (ie highest rank/longest held at the joint highest rank) or because they are the most âWOâ of the SNCOs
A neighbouring Unit has a WO, and two FS, but it is one of the FS who has the SNCO account and is considered the SWO as they are they one who develops the Sqn NCO team and is a Directing Staff on the Wing NCO courses. heâs also very âdrillyâ so is the obvious fit for the role - i am unaware of any âformalâ appointment though?
Squadron Warrant Officer certainly is a thing, but itâs abbreviated to Sqn WO and only applies to those of WO rank (whether acting or substantive).
SWO stands for Station Warrant Officer and is not only always a warrant officer but a senior one at that.
Where the Sqn WO role is held by someone else (usually a senior FS) they will be known as the Sqn FS, FS A1/3/5, or something similar.
In the Army, they have a slight separation in language with WO2 or WO1 being the ranks and squadron / company / battery / regimental sergeant major being the appointment. This means you do sometimes see SSgts holding sergeant major appointments (particularly Troop Sergeant Major) and this practise sometimes carries on in Army-led joint units (but never in the RAF proper).
The challenge is,
As soon as the box is ticked they are warranted by the secretary of state. The certificate is just the formality.
I have a personal bug bear of people who canât complete the matrix do the OIC route to circumvent it then a few months after promotion step down.
My personal opinion again, first 4 years should be acting before actual warrant is issued
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yes i appreciate it is a thing - there are many out there.
i am questioning the âWing appointedâ bit - edited in bold now for clarity
your right it does
but for the ATC - a âstationâ is the Squadron" - so in my mind at least i see the two as interchangeable
Station WO when in an RAF context
Squadron WO when in ATC context
No, itâs always Sqn WO. Claiming to be a SWO when youâre not is waltish (bloating, at the very least).
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if you inisit
much like ATC is always Air Traffic Control i guess⌠
#contextiskey
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That would be all well and good if there was zero risk of someone describing a sgt RAFAC as âthe SWOâ on an actual RAF station.
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Again context is key
Would i describe someone as a âSWOâ verbally (Ess-Whoa")? no - i would use/say Squadron Warrant Officer
Would i write âSWOâ to reference someoneâs role? Yes - while SWO might be commonly known as âStationâ (RAF), but in the world of the ATC that âSâ could and readily is taken as âSquadronâ
And to remove any doubt, if corresponding with the RAF about the SWO, i would use âSquadron WOâ to avoid any confusion.
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Including time served matrix fillers, or just the advanced?
Yes, but itâs just âswoeâ (and only ever applies to Station Warrant Officers).
So to return to and summarise the original query before everyone became distractedâŚ
Any SNCO can be the de facto Sqn WO by virtue of holding the responsibilities associated with the role.
But they would not be referred to as such, simply being âThe Sqn Senior NCOâ.
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and returning to my questionâŚ
is âwing appointmentâ really a thing?
FWIW and my 2c, Iâve pretty much always referred to the senior SNCO or the more drilly one as the Sqn WO, irrespective of rank. Itâs a role, Sqn WO. And it wouldnât be a wing appointment, as surely the OC appoints their Sqn WO. Generally the one whoâs allocated the SNCO account, by the OC.
Itâs no different to how you might have a camp WO responsible for the drill and discipline on camp. But the camp WO may well be a Sgt or FS.
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Havenât thought that far TBH
that is what u thought - thank you
It may a role, but itâs a role named after the rank to distinguish it from all of those that hold the rank.
They are the most senior authority at that rank at that formation.
If youâre not a WO, why would you be distinguished from other WOs?
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That depends. Ours is currently vacant and the selection board includes a gp capt (DACOS / dep head of profession) and Cmd WO, in addition to the OC.