That’s the important bit. How are we defining that?
I’m available for the sqn, but I’m categorically not available for the amount of time that’s demanded of an OC. I can’t fit in all the committee meetings, all the Wing OCs meetings, all the extra time drains that come with taking on the mantle. I simply don’t have the time.
And if, as suggested below, the answer is to remove my commission because I dare to have a real life. Guess what? All officers will vanish.
Remove their commissions then.
Simples.
One relatively obvious solution would just seem to be having a policy of fast-tracking commissions for SNCOs in charge of units.
Which would make perfect sense.
Might even be easier now the initial course is combined.
There are quite a few NCOs who don’t want to commission even if they are OiCs however.
Having an NCO as OC with an Officer under then is really no different to a unit having a Plt Off or Fg Off as OC with a Flt Lt or a Sqn Ldr as a Squadron Officer.
The rank doesn’t matter, it’s about the role.
@GrandMaster_Flush The definition of availability would come down to individual cases. I think it would also depend on the staff team on a Sqn as well. An Officer could hit the very minimum required of an OC and then utilise their Sqn Staff to help in places (e.g. Committee Meetings or OC Meetings allow for representatives).
On @Paracetamol 's view in removing a commission, it comes down to willingness. If an officer has no real reason for avoiding becoming OC, then a review of their potential as an officer should be taken. This obviously stems from my views that all officers should aim to be OC at some point. If an officer is willing to be an OC but has a succinct reason as to why they can’t, I don’t see a problem with that.
@daws1159 Having higher ranks in positions below lower ranks confuses the Chain of Command. Excepting certain circumstances, if you’ve got a Fg Off and a Flt Lt, the Flt Lt should be the OC. (I’d say there wouldn’t be a situation with a Sqn Ldr on a Sqn)
This is something I have seen in my wing whereby previous FS and WO SNCO IC’s have been fast-tracked to Flt Lt. Seems to have worked out well. I know of a few who declined the progression and that was also accepted by Wg HQ.
Tough line to draw when it would come to an OC asking someone else to do their job at important staff events; I can see that leading to Sqn Staff wondering if their OC is up to task in committing to the role, as well as potentially leading to some communication issues on important matters that come up.
I know that I would want my actual OC there for staff meetings - the vision and strategic direction of the squadron should ideally be spearheaded by them through leading by example.
It doesn’t confuse people on the real world where the difference between role and rank is well understood, nor has it caused anarchy on the Squadrons I’ve been on where I have been both sides of that particular coin. (It also doesn’t confuse people at work where role as opposed is a key part of Public Order, Search and CBRN.
So you would oppose Wing and Region SME’s from also volunteering at a local unit.
Surely this should never happen.
If someone is a Sqn Ldr they are in a primary role elsewhere at wing level.
Unless they are supernumary, in which case it could be argued they have too much time and should focus on delivering their primary role.
To add.
I have never seen a sqn ldr on a sqn as a sqn officer.
In volunteer world there isn’t a chain of command and even the pseudo one we have is role related not rank.
No one in RAFAC can give or be given “a lawful order” (you can give a reasonable management instruction, but you have to be able to justify reasonableness, can he interpreted by the recipient & really unless it’s from paid staff has not weight behind it).
WEXOs are nominally Sqn Ldrs but have a lot of authority over their OC Wing .
Now what you could implement is that you only wear your rank when acting in that role otherwise you wear your substantive rank.
E.g. wing shooting officer who is Sqn Ldr & supernumerary Sqn officer wears Sqn Ldr at wing events but Fg off the rest of the time & at Sqn.
Saves on tailoring costs for uniform & reduces those who peacock but may make things a little chaotic (which is always fun 
)
I think most Wg cdr would disgree.
I have but in that instance they rarely wore uniform (preferring smart civvies) as they wanted to do the bits with the cadets without all the Sqn Ldr baggage. It worked well but I think it comes down to the individual.
Nothing new, I was running a DF as WO in the 90s; promotions, awards, attending things etc was on my signature. This was discussed at Wing long before I was approached and there were 3 baby PO who could have done it, but the view was better off having someone with experience, rather than someone who didn’t.
I personally can’t see the problem once you get over the artificial rank BS. In the old VRT, the rank had some relevance but not any longer.
Since they got rid of the VRT we’re all the same some of us in uniform and some not. You want someone in the post who can and wants to do the job, not because of their rank.
The uniform/rank of adults is slowly losing relevance, as more and more people who aren’t commissioned are being put into Sqn command positions and even coming down to things like adj and TO. When I was a cadet in the 70s and started as staff in the 80s, the majority of adj and TO were officers. But over time as the number of officers reduced, it was whoever wanted to do it.
When I did a couple of years as WSO, you saw all manner of people in completely the wrong job as Sqn Cdrs just because they were commissioned.
I think HQAC need to fully understand why people don’t want to commission and why if they do they don’t want to take up sqn commands. BUT they don’t do “exit interviews” and at no point does anyone sit down when people say they looking at leaving and would they consider another role. They could send something to anyone who has in the last say 10 years resigned a commission or SNCO, to find out why, to at least look into how they could help into improving retention.
I know when my time comes which is not too far away, that will be it. I always thought I’d revert to CI or go on to the CWC, but given the ways things are changing, that ain’t happening. But will anyone ask why, no. Simply because there is little will to change things or address people’s for want of a word grievances. I am busily shedding ‘jobs’ and moving people around so they have the ‘experience’ to carry on when I go.
While I agree that if you take a commission there is an expectation you will run a sqn, to suggest that if someone doesn’t their commission is taken away is a puerile attitude that does us no favours. People’s circumstances change and while at the point of doing it being a sqn cdr was front and centre, by the time it comes around, it’s not possible. The only way around this is at the point of applying for a commission a signed undertaking is made that you will run a sqn and if you don’t you will be expected to resign your commission immediately, which will see people exiting stage left. Also if this was the way it was would people actually bother in the first place.
Oh undoubtedly, but for a quiet life you let them believe in the illusion whilst you get on with the proper work that enables the volunteers in the background.
Rank does not equal authority & authority does not equal influence
Yet irronically it should.
Perhaps as has been argued thousands of times in here. The way and when people are promoted in rafac needs completely overhauling.
We should accept people remaining as Sgts or Plt Offs, there should be no promotions unless its for taking on responsibility and demonstrating ability.
Perhaps everyone should enter at Sgt and work upwards.
Who knows.
We have a rank structure.
Some sqns apply it, some.wings apply it.
Some dont.
But however you cut it. The Sqn OC is boss. End of.
Well @redowling would clearly be exhibit a in this case.
I’m also a primary role WSO (although as a Flt Lt) but much of my role is done behind the scenes and at weekends. I therefore have time in the evening so why wouldn’t I give that to my local Squadron irrespective of the rank of the OC?
@TheDon I agree with your point here. I meant about “extra” duties, if you want to call it that. Even then, I suppose I would say they wouldn’t be able to do it every time, just times when they personally couldn’t. By OCs meeting I was thinking of a meeting between OCs at a sector/wing level. Naturally, an OC would be present at a Sqn Staff meeting.
@daws1159 I don’t mean confuse in the literal sense. I mean, as far as I’m concerned, those with a higher rank have authority of those below. A Sqn Ldr helping out a local unit would fall into a Supernumerary positions and would be fine. As @Paracetamol says, any Sqn Ldr will(should) have a primary role at wing level. Any assistance to a local unit would be an extra circumstance.
@Chief_Tech I’m not talking in the lawful or legal nature of it all. As a club, we use ranks. Ranks have seniority. If they don’t mean anything, why have them (although that’s probably a discussion besides the point in this thread).
Im a Sqn Ldr on a Sqn as I’m double hatted
I had a Sqn Ldr section officer when I was OC section as an APO/Plt Off. He was old school time served. Never caused any issues.