Sizing with AP818

Everyone Uniform and Drill
1

Hey all,

My first time posting, little on the nervous side. Hope everyone is well? Just wondering if someone can answer question on AP818. When forming a squad by a Cdt Cpl and the cadets are put into height order who are they to address when they have finished numbering off?
Is it…
A ) the last cadet numbering off addresses the person taking the drill (cpl)
B ) the highest ranking NCO that happens to be waiting to take over (Sgt, Flt Sgt)
C ) the Cpl is addressed regardless of any other NCO ranks BUT if there is an officer then they have the privilege so the cadet will finished with “sir” - I think it’s this one but I’m happy to told otherwise.

I can’t seem to find the answer in the 700 odd pages of AP818. Can anyone point me in the right direction? Maybe link me to something for some proof as i have just had some Cadet return from camp with various ideas.

I await you answer :slight_smile:

2

I’ve looked before and couldn’t see any instruction to say one thing or another. It simply isn’t mentioned.
Because of this we now have our last person just call the number.

(beforehand we had them say the rank of the person giving the command “number” on the basis that the reply goes to them and not to some random other entity who may be hanging about in the area)

3

Ask yourself who is taking the drill?

Is it the Cpl who is giving the command, or is it some random other person who happens to be watching the form up?

I would say its quite rude to the poor Cpl who is giving the commands to be totally ignored just because there happens to be someone watching. I would also extend that to a DI who is dancing around the drill square with their sharpened pencil, as they aren’t the ones taking the drill.

My guess is that the manual doesn’t give an answer because it doesn’t need to. Spectators aren’t covered in drill, and that is all anyone watching is.

4

I would also feel bad for the Cpl.

I have found this, which will probably confuse things more. But I might be getting the hang of it.

From what I can work out:

If a Squad is being formed then…

[color=#000088][i]"10. Then, on the command:

“SQUAD FROM THE RIGHT NUMBER”

all personnel, except the right marker, are to turn their head and eyes smartly to the right. At the same time the right marker is to start the numbering by calling out:

“ONE”.

This is to be followed immediately by the next person on the marker’s left turning the head to the front and at the same time calling out:

“TWO”

and so on, until all personnel are numbered. Numbering is sometimes necessary while personnel are in three ranks. In this case the procedure is the same, the personnel in each rank taking on the number of the person calling out in the front rank for the file as a whole. Only personnel in the front rank are to turn their heads and call out the numbers; the rest pay attention to hear their numbers called. "[/i][/color] - Pt2 Ch3 pg2

Which is what the cadets are doing at the start, at end of the evening and when practising, forming a squad, so the incubus is right and it would be who ever is taking it.

But…

In Flight Drill:

When the command ON PARADE is used for parade and inspection

[color=#000088]"4. The NCO IC is then to call the roll. In response, personnel are to come momentarily
to Attention and answer only by calling out the NCO’s rank in acknowledgement. Similarly, if a nominal roll is called by an officer or warrant officer, or if either are present, individuals are to answer: “Sir/Ma’am”. "[/color] - Pt2 Ch4 Pg1

But the cadet are not being inspected so this is not used right? Plus it doesn’t count for Cdt NCO’s which is where my problem is.

So I am inclined to use the first option of when a Squad is formed. Would I be right in thinking this or is someone of a different opinion?

5

That last flight drill quote is not related to numbering - it’s about answering when your name is called from a nominal roll (register).
Answer with the NCO’s rank; unless an Officer or WO is present (in which case the NCO is calling the roll on behalf of the Officer or WO) when you answer with Sir/Ma’am.

Though, the same could be extended to numbering, if one considers that the NCO sizing the squad is doing so on behalf of the present Officer or WO.

6

Incubus is right. For Numbering the Squad, the last man just calls out their number. There is no reference to sticking a rank on the end of it in AP818 unlike ACP19 so there is no need to do it… even though it does sound better.

7

What you need is someone who’s just been through Halton or Cranwell as I’m sure they’d be doing as per what the DI required.

Better than that someone who is a DI at Halton/Cranwell or responsible for instructing DIs as one would hope, these are extremely well versed on the matter and ensure that all things are done correctly.

8

[quote=“wdimagineer2b” post=9564]That last flight drill quote is not related to numbering - it’s about answering when your name is called from a nominal roll (register).
Answer with the NCO’s rank; unless an Officer or WO is present (in which case the NCO is calling the roll on behalf of the Officer or WO) when you answer with Sir/Ma’am.

Though, the same could be extended to numbering, if one considers that the NCO sizing the squad is doing so on behalf of the present Officer or WO.[/quote]

Here’s a funny one…

When I was doing some of my Phase 2 training, one of the blokes with us was a Flying Officer (for reasons too dull to go into).

He fell in with us as part of the course at morning muster. When the roll was called, should everyone have answered with ‘sir’, on the basis that an officer was present?

9

As an ex DI at Halton I have never come across the whole highest rank present thing it was always just who ever was taking drill whoever is commanding said squad as far as anyone else is concerned is the only person there. Even to the point that if a higher rank wants to address the troops they should ask to do so.

10

Zinggy is correct on this matter. I too am an ex AAADI and can concur with his statements. however, as a caveat; and this is in no way an excuse or indeed correct, some of the older more crusty members of the ATC might not agree and so it may be wiser to just dip a toe in the water so to speak. It isn’t something that a decent DI will get upset about as ultimately respect is being shown, but on a correct level what Zinggy says is correct.