HI,
We’ve been having a debate on the sqn how exactly a squad sizes of after the “Tallest on the right, shortest on the left, in single rank size” command.
a) do they or don’t they march(swing arms) - most high placing drill teams are those that do swing arms - but there’s no mention of it in the lesson.
b) the dressing - without intervals (teapots) or shoulder dressing? - the lesson states “without intervals” - but it’s yet to be seen.
AP818 states:
A) i was always told more than 5 paces swing your arms, less than 5 paces dont, so that would mean the first couple of people (no. 3,5,7) dont swing their arms whereas everyone else should
B) i have always done it shoulder to shoulder, and as they wont have been taught dressing yet how can they expect people to know what to do in that case
What I don’t understand is:
“Personnel… are to right incline”
But under Points to Note it says:
“A correct Left Turn is carried out”
How does this work?
I was just wondering that, and I’m guessing it’s either:
But it also says that the squad is to practice individually, which must be a little confusing.
??
Not sure where that fits into this discussion - for the drill competition they should all be fairly competent in foot drill.
Perhaps, but there is also a lot of current opposition to the concept of “penguins” waddling about with their arms checked to the sides and everything I’ve heard recently seems to favour arm swings. The specific context for that has been when forming the flight though - the question here is about forming a single rank (usually prior to sizing.)
Most I’ve seen seem to do it shoulder-to-shoulder but it wouldn’t surprise me if everybody in the ATC had been doing it incorrectly for decades 
If I’m honest about it it would take something to convince me that the actual intention of the movement in this case is anything other than people carrying our a right incline then immediately ambling in an un-airmanlike manner to find the place in the line where they should be standing. Doing anything else and trying to make it look like a proper drill movement is just false. NOTE: This statement does not constitute advice 
[quote=“MattB” post=18397]I was just wondering that, and I’m guessing it’s either:
It’s a typo.
There are loads of them!
This may have arisen as under the previous edition of AP818 personnel carried out a left turn before breaking ranks, rather than a right incline as we do now.
In answer to the original question:
[quote=“Jonay1990” post=18390]
b) the dressing - without intervals (teapots) or shoulder dressing? - the lesson states “without intervals”[/quote]
You’re right, it does say “without intervals”. However if you look at the para on Sizing a Squad in Part 2, there it says “shoulder to shoulder”.
Another example of the many inconsistencies that have arisen through updates over the years and with the introduction of the ‘lesson plan’ format of Part 1.
Ultimately it doesn’t really matter, but I’d always go for shoulder to shoulder myself.
One might argue that what would be most useful would be to know what is being taught at Halton, though they’ve already decided to change certain drills from those in AP818, so it’s a bit of a can o’ worms.
And since we are on drill questions and AP818…
Left/Right Close March, AP818 says:
“each knee is to bend sufficiently to enable the foot to clear the ground 6 in (15 cm) during the movement.”
But according to our local ATC and our recent CCF(RAF) National Competition, the leading foot ‘slides’ along the ground with the trailing foot being brought up to it, bending the knee. How does this get EACH FOOT 6 in off the ground?
That’s an example of one of those changes to drills in AP818 I was talking about.
Halton currently teach that only the trailing leg comes through the bent knee position.
(They also teach the change step in quick time differently from AP818).
The advice from ATF is “Decide which way you’re going to do it in your Wing, and do it that way”.
Not that helpful… But you can hardly blame them when the RAF themselves are doing it differently from the manual.
What is ideally needed is an update to 818, or for Halton to go back to the manual. Either way, I can’t imagine that will happen any time soon.
AP818 is a ‘best practice guide’ and the RAF are happy to simply say “that practice has changed”. In our ATC world though, people want everything to be exactly as written; which is infeasible.
None of which is very helfpul for us CCF(RAF) types with no Adult NCOs or Drill Instructors to refer to, and a chain of command who don’t seem to have realised that ACP19 is no longer valid.
How is the change step in quick time different?
Halton are teaching that the right leg is brought through the bent knee position, rather than just bringing the foot forward.
To do it in the correct timing (and thus actually be able to CHANGE step) is awkward. If done slower it might look nice, but it doesn’t achieve it’s purpose.
WO Drill and Ceremony HQAC has said sizing of a squad should be done shoulder to shoulder.
[quote=“orh197” post=18395]What I don’t understand is:
“Personnel… are to right incline”
But under Points to Note it says:
“A correct Left Turn is carried out”
How does this work?[/quote]
An ATC DI fresh out of ATF told me last weekend that where such anomalies exist, the “points to note” take precedence.
In this case, that would put it at odds from what we were told by an RAF DI at Halton last year
In most cases, it’s the only practical way to do it anyway - having the whole squad ‘teapotting’ in a single line would generally take up a hell of a lot of space.
