And back on topic.
Does it really, really matter? I could see the moustachoed, pie loving pace stick wielders getting bent out of shape, but then back in the real world ā¦
If you want to do things correctly, yes.
If you donāt want to lose points in a competition, yes.
3 Likes
Surely there canāt be a points reduction if there is no definitive answer in the competition rules or guide book?
Merely assess the ability for the individuals to count incrementally until there are no other people in the line - as there is no guidance on what else to do - thatās all the can be assessed?
As there is no guidance of what else to do, surely doing something else is a deviation from the guidance and can warrant a deduction 
Seriously though, just adding rank/sir at the end is within tolerance but some of the invented nonsense I have seen spouted after a numbering is worthy of comment, just as having each member screaming a number at the top of their lungs and trying to number off as quickly as possible raises eyebrows and invites my disdain.
2 Likes
If it doesnāt matter, why bother commenting?
Because people seem to be getting excited about it and itās worth putting it out there.
Iāll remember that justification during your next rant
3 Likes
No oneās getting excited. Weāre just trying to ensure that people are doing it the right way.
Remember the two key points for all matters Drill & Ceremonial:
-
AP 818 is rarely updated. There are accepted RAF practices which are not necessarily contained within - Such as calling rank/Sir/Maāam at the end of number. Just because itās not in AP 818 doesnāt automatically mean that we shouldnāt do it. If thatās what is current practice in the RAF then logically we should follow suit.
-
Recruit Training often seem to do their own thing completely independently of the rest of the RAF; and that thing changes more regularly than a pair of socks.
1 Like
Of course, we need a better mechanism for promulgating the current RAF practice or it becomes a litany of chinese whispers. Ideally in writing and with a date to establish precedence.
As 818 updates are as slow as that drippy lump of pitch they have a webcam pointing at, perhaps an addendum could be produced and maintained in parallel!
Thatās the crux of it, isnāt it.
The RAF donāt concern themselves over having it written down. The SMEs get together and make a decision which is then promulgated (somewhat effectively) downward.
Then they trust their DIs to get on with it.
Unless they change that policy weāre always going to be dependant on being kept in the loop.
In the ATC we have traditionally too many ārenegadeā DIs doing god-knows-what; and a desire to have everything written down.
The logical method to me seems to be simply that the RAF update CACWO and we hope that CACWOās message gets to all of us without being altered along the way.
And then we have to trust that our DIs know what theyāre doing. There are plenty of Moaning Minies out there who - with AP 818 in hand - are only too ready to attempt to prove that they know better than the DIā¦
Granted in some cases they are right though!
1 Like
Well I canāt lie, I am finding this thread incredibly exciting. Riveting in fact.
Basically at the end of the day ACP 818 is the drill rules. And as I got told by many staff and NCO if you are not doing a wing parade the last man will just shout there number plus the rank of the person who is taking it. (you donāt call the person rank who is just standings around in the smar area) but if you are on a wing parade the last person will call. There number, last man and the rank of the person taking parade
AP818^
Also it says nothing in there about calling the rank of the person. Itās just 1, 2 etc
1 Like
Hi, I am the smallest cadet at my squadron and therefore when sizing a squad I am last. I am unsure if I call out my number followed by the highest ranking person in the vicinity.The reason I am confused is because when I first joined cadets our drill instructor taught me to say my number followed by the highest ranking person in the vicinity. However as our squadron is so big we do first parade in two flight and when we size off we are always in two flights one behind the other. The smallest person in the other flight was from the entry prior to me and she always says the person taking the flight which is always corporal. Do I carry on what I have been taught or copy other cadets that have been there a lot longer than I have?
1 Like
Ah, well, now you see youāve wandered in grey territory.
Youāll not find the requirement to call out rank written in AP 818 (the RAF Drill Manual) however it has long been considered standard practice by the RAF and thus most DIs (RAF and RAFAC) will probably have been taught that the last person should call their number followed by the rank of āthe highest ranking person on the paradeā.
The trouble is that some will have come away with the impression that means only those persons currently taking command of the parade, others will say that it means any person of rank hanging about in the vicinity.
Iāve found RAF and RAFAC DIs in both camps and as itās not written anywhere the RAF line is simple - you do what your DI / SWO tells you to do on that occasion of the parade.
In the RAFAC we make it more complicated because thereās no end of staff ready to complain about it one way or the other.
I was taught (and thus advocate) that if someone is wandering around doing something else - ignore them, but if a higher rank is near by specifically observing the drill then call their rank.
But again, if your Sqn WO tells you different, go with it.
1 Like
Great that you.
1 Like
Not even sure it was in ACP19, I teach it without rank
1 Like