Should the fact that a flight sergeant isn’t going for CWO stop me from becoming a Fs?

Hi, I’ve been really pushing to get FS at the moment by working extra hard, helping the staff and doing many courses. However, I’ve been told that I won’t get FS until one of the FS goes for cwo?
Any help/opinions

If there’s no vacancy for a new FS then it’s not that unusual for there to be no promotion for a new FS.

It differs sqn to sqn, however, with some COs being of the mind that if you’re good enough, you’ll get it. But then, you could end up with 5 FS’ on a sqn of 25. What would be the use in that?

There has to be a bit of pragmatism in this.

Yes, it’s likely to mean that you won’t get FS until one of the existing FS’ moves up/down/out.
But that shouldn’t stop you from doing what you’re doing and putting the effort in.

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Don’t stop trying even when we think people aren’t noticing the extra effort they are and taking notes. Keep doing what you are doing and you will be rewarded. Try not to be disheartened. :+1:

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Technically each Squadron has an entitlement of NCO based on headcount…it depends if your Sqn is following it

There’s a degree of flexibility in the system, but it can look silly and create problems if taken too far.

My question is why doesn’t the/a FS want to take CWO?

We have had 2 FS’s in the past with 1 CWO. We get anything between 30-45 cadets on a parade night. Currently tho we have 1 FS as both the CWO and the 2nd FS have gone on to Uni. Our remaining FS has about 8 months before she ages out and is looking at joining the forces which will leave us with 2 Sgt’s and 3 Cpl’s. Of those 2 Sgt’s I’ve personally not seen either looking to progress to FS, the OC is planning to talk to them next Tuesday to see what they want to do and then we might have an idea of were we will be going forward with promotions etc

Simple answer: Depends

Most OC’s will have a structure how willing they are to break it is the question.

I have pretty firm promotion rules and a process I expect my NCO’s to go through.

Despite a lack of vacancies don’t assume you aren’t being considered, you are.

I have a very young Squadron, lots of Cadets, a lot of Cpls, 1 Sgt and 1 FS. Beyond the top 2 I only have 2 with more than 2 years, both Cpls.

I am Currently planning the next promotion round and part of the conversation is “do I want to promote more than I have vacancies in the system” It’s likely but not guaranteed that I will as I have 2 spots for Sgt and 3 or 4 Cpls who I expect to smash it. What’s worse having ore SNCO’s than I need or breaking 2 really good Cpl’s that would be promoted on a bigger Squadron?

As people have said promotion is a very peculiar to each squadron. I’ve known COs not promote cadets until they reach a particular classification and lot of COs now seem to use course attendance and feedback therein as they seem unwilling, inexperienced or unable to trust their own judgement. I promote cadets when I think they are ready. I currently have more Cpls and Sgts than I really need and one FS, but I know that some will leave in the next few months as the pressure of exams hit, including the FS who I know is struggling with his A Levels after speaking to his dad a few weeks back, he and his wife are concerned that the ATC is an unwelcome distraction.

Frankly don’t worry about promotion and just enjoy your time as a cadet and abuse the organisation to get the most out of it. If it’s going to happen it will happen, I personally would say you have more important things to be concerning yourself with, such as passing exams so you can progress in the next 50 years of your life. Getting to FS or CWO come to that won’t make much difference other than an extra few words in a personal statement in your first couple of job applications / CVs.

@Giminion Why do they need to go for CWO?
It’s down to the individual like it is across the organisation when it comes to promotion, becoming adult staff and adult staff going into uniform.
I’ve had cadets turn down promotion to Cpl, Sgt, FS and CWO.
The girl who said no to CWO did so as she was nearly 19 and by the time it had happened she would have had at most 6 months and as she wasn’t interested in adult staff she said it was pointless. She asked what more it would give her in terms of opportunities to actually do things for her as a cadet and beyond more responsibility I struggled, given she was already the senior cadet NCO. I wonder what someone interviewing for CWO would say if they were asked, what does mean in terms of what extra I can do, outside being expected to “be in charge”.

To be frank it’s about time CWO went. The last 2 I’ve had only did it to get “the set”. Years ago IMO it meant something and was something to aim for.

Also in life promotion is a personal choice. I know a few coppers who retired as Constables after 30+ years as being a Constable to them meant being “on the street” having more contact with people which they felt being a police officer was all about, whereas promotion to Sgt even apparently could take them away from that. One of them spent his last 10 years as a school liaison for 4 secondary schools which he said was the greatest fun ever and now is a pastoral worker in one of the schools.

Is it still the case where you can be promoted to CWO from sgt, bypassing FS?

I was (c25 years ago…) a sgt on sqn and simultaneously a VGS staff cadet when we had a change of CO at my sqn; new CO was an ex RN winchman who was highly hacked off that our Wg Cdr wouldn’t let him wear an RAF loadmaster brevet. He did anyway except on inspections and WTD, horrible little man with a complex, he resented any cadets wearing any wings when he wasn’t officially allowed to. Still to this day don’t know why he didn’t bog off to the matelot cadets.

As soon as I stitched my VGS G1 wings to my jumper not long after this cretin appeared at sqn my card was permanently marked; I was kept as the longest serving sgt ever with people promoted over me (one was a new starter who I inducted when I was cpl with 3 years in, subsequently given FS over me) despite working my plums off, taking on canteen, stores, silver d of e, Akrotiri camp, Nijmegen, teaching, RAFA and poppy collections etc etc.

On our annual inspection the Wg Cdr asked me directly why I’d been a sgt for so long despite what I’d achieved/done for both myself and the squadron since attaining that rank. On final parade (could’ve kissed the old bandit) the Wg Cdr told our OC that I was to be put forward for CWO.

I’m not intending to draw parallels between my old OC and the OPs situation but if the FS on sqn are happy where they are and/or not bothered about CWO, if it’s still possible and with enough hard graft, what’s to stop the OP applying for CWO from sgt assuming they are keen and more importantly, capable?

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