Our local ACF CEO (roughly = WExO for the ACF) made a perceptive comment about Westminster - it enables the ‘long screwdriver of Brigade’ to drill down into what we are doing and meddle.
Bader is heading the same way…
Update, it would seem that the qcWHT will not be resurrected. It was removed across the board with the regular forces & we were the last ones with the circled wagons! 
SAAI is (unless anything else appears on the far horizon) is the only way ahead. Not so easy to get time off for a 4 days cse or a 2 x 2 weekend requirement though. It also seems to load the same people on a sqn as the preferred candidates.
Currently, there are no plans to move forward with a “bolt-action rifle only” WI course.
The Air Rifle RCO courses aren’t getting the expected interest = maybe not so many for the future? Have to say, for the one this year, holding it at St Mawgan could be seen as counter-productive (I’m aware it may be to do with SASC cover) but it’s too far to travel for many sqns. Cranwell would have been perfect.
For me, an air rifle range should be an easy option for sqns to consider; it allows for much more shooting (can be set up very quickly if a programme change is required) & the air rifle is much more conducive than the No 8 to cadets putting the principles of marksmanship into operation. RCO cse = one weekend, not the 2 required for the SA(SR)07. No ammo transportation problems! :lol:
If you are considering an air rifle range, I posted some details:
Heard snippets that progress being made with the No 8 replacement.
[quote=“MikeJenvey” post=20238]
Heard snippets that progress being made with the No 8 replacement.[/quote]
Money has been allocated to trial a suitable replacement. I am assuming that the replacement will be a joint venture for all MOD sponsored cadet forces, not everyone doing their own thing!
In the minutes from the latest Cadet Training Working Group meeting (admittedly for ACF but I imagine the replacement will be across the board) it was stated that £0.5 million had been allocated for a trial, so it looks like things are moving.
There was a very brief mention in the SASC Journal 2013, but nothing specific.
Not many .22 manufacturers that do “cheap” target rifles - Remington have a rim-fire “compact” option that might be worth consideration, lighter weight, etc. Would probably need better sights though:
http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/compact/rimfire/model-five-compact.aspx
This is apparently one of the contenders. 
Anschutz 1903 c\w sights approx:. £1000 retail
-20% VAT: approx. £800
- bulk discount and direct order from manufacturer (MoD should not need to go through RUAG)
Target cost on delivery to unit approx £650
That is cheap and achievable.
exmpa
From the tender (albeit there may well be a new one):
[quote]II.1.5) Short description of the contract or purchase(s):
The MOD is looking to replace the No8 rifle used by the Cadet Forces. They are looking for an entry level target rifle with the following requirements:
The rifle must be capable of firing .22LR ammunition and must have the following features:
bolt action,
single shot,
aperture rear sight with one sixth of a minute adjustments,
tunnel foresight with element options,
capable of firing a 17,78mm (0.70") or smaller group at 45,72m (50 yds) using Eley Target Rifle ammunition
Supplied with cleaning kit and sling
And should have the following:
removable rear sling swivel (if fitted),
full length slide rail to take an adjustable handstop, forward sling swivel,
bipod.
adjustable butt.
It must not weigh more than 10,5lbs (4,77kg)
There will be a need to carry out Defence Ordnance Safety Group trials as part of the selection process to ensure the weapon is safe and suitable for service. Therefore, upon formal invitation to tender, you will be required to submit samples of your proposed target rifle. The total number of samples is to be confirmed.
The rifle is expected to remain in service until at least 2030.[/quote]
The Anschutz 1903 looks like it would fit most of the specification - but whatever is chosen, hope that they omit the rear sling swivel; it’s superfluous in this day & age.
About £1100 (with sights) from UK suppliers. As you suggest, bulk ordering should get a good discount - but hey, this is an IPT you are looking at.
I can’t find an up-to-date price for the Remington, but the most recent was sub US $400 = a big difference (without applying bulk discount); it wouldn’t take much to add any items not already in the specs. If the intention is to push out a whole bunch of rifles, then any difference in price will probably be a big factor. This isn’t just a order for a few good “starter quality” rifles for a club, this could be an order in the thousands(?) across the cadet world.
I love the consistency of the of the description:
cf
It’s so poorly drafted that one fears for the outcome.
Goods from the USA will also be subject to 17% import duty, which unlike VAT cannot be claimed back. Once you have provisioned for compatible sight sets, rifles from the USA look less cheap. In any event they are likely to represent much poorer value.
exmpa
Very true - the rear aperture sight requirement doesn’t specify that it must be moveable in both elevation AND windage - let’s make a fold-up sight moveable in 1/6 minute elevation only! :S
I very much agree - an “off the shelf” product from a quality supplier such as Anschutz (& one known to many) should be the solid choice…
[quote=“exmpa” post=20269]I love the consistency of the of the description:
cf
It’s so poorly drafted that one fears for the outcome.
Goods from the USA will also be subject to 17% import duty, which unlike VAT cannot be claimed back. Once you have provisioned for compatible sight sets, rifles from the USA look less cheap. In any event they are likely to represent much poorer value.
exmpa[/quote]
If the MoD buy them, there will be no import duty as it’s going from one gov fund back into it.
Hmm, not had many dealings with The Treasury then? The problem is that it is shown on your budget and will have to be accounted for. The fact that it will go back into central funds will be ignored by The Treasury, You were given an an allocation and included in that is an amount to meet your fiscal obligations, including any tax and duty due. MoD does not pay import duty on all items it purchases abroad, many are 0% rated. However in this case it would be a sporting firearm with no direct military application and as such would attract import duty at the normal rate.
The Treasury doesn’t have “special relationships”.
exmpa
i suspect because those who were keen on a Sqn Air Rifle range got on an done it, and most likely had someone weapons qualified on Sqn anyway and so had the backing of CWC/OC to go forward.
those with no active Sqn Shooting Officer, with no qualifications and little drive to get involved just to coordinate opportunities wont have the interest.
unfortunately i am in the middle.
i am driven and interested and our Sqn has even been inspected and got the green light…but the OC and CWC arent that interested at this time as we have monthly IWT and LFMT opportunities for our Cadets at our Parent Station…
Well, in our case, we had no range & no RCO; we only had a qcWHT (No 8), alas no more. Whilst there were other options within 20 miles, you have to factor in transport, timings, inability to split training on own sqn, etc.
Ours was a “longer term” plan - get the range constructed & at the same time, work towards RCO. Once you have all the “ticks,” you will have a very productive facility that will show huge improvements in marksmanship. Super-quick to set up if you have to cancel an activity.
Some 2+ years later, we have a range & 2 RCOs, one also LR. One other member of staff did the coaching cse. One hoping to attend the Air Rifle RCO cse this month if a place is available, & one looking at the SAAI cse in Oct. Start slowly & work upwards.
Hmm, not had many dealings with The Treasury then? The problem is that it is shown on your budget and will have to be accounted for. The fact that it will go back into central funds will be ignored by The Treasury, You were given an an allocation and included in that is an amount to meet your fiscal obligations, including any tax and duty due. MoD does not pay import duty on all items it purchases abroad, many are 0% rated. However in this case it would be a sporting firearm with no direct military application and as such would attract import duty at the normal rate.
The Treasury doesn’t have “special relationships”.
Yes. Daily at various departments and levels. VAT and import duty are two different things.
exmpa[/quote]
[quote=“MikeJenvey” post=20275]
Some 2+ years later, we have a range & 2 RCOs, one also LR. One other member of staff did the coaching cse. One hoping to attend the Air Rifle RCO cse this month if a place is available, & one looking at the SAAI cse in Oct. Start slowly & work upwards. ;-)[/quote]
this really is a success story and congratulate you on it!
i am left in two minds given i am happy to take it somewhere, we have the money and the green light but no interest from the Staff/CWC
Maybe when/if the military hardware options fall away that attitude will change…
Well, as you already have some interest in shooting on your sqn (going to other locations), then I would suggest that an on-site facility would generate more interest, enhance marksmanship skills considerably & allow progression to air rifle postal competitions, etc. Also, if the range angles permit, you might be able to shoot up to 10m & do kneeling/sitting/standing - 5.5m or 10m - not possible on a .22 range.
If you go ahead, it will also give more impetus to get someone on the SR RCO cse - & perhaps higher priority for allocation - realistically, you are probably looking at dates from Spring 2015, which would would work out nicely for range construction, final inspection & issuing of the range certificate.
Go for it! If you need advice, check the link & please feel free to PM.
^^^^ yes yes and YES!!
it isnt me you need to convince though.
we had everything in place 2 yrs ago and our then Shooting Officer was stalling (claiming a lack of “MOD approved” black hessian) in all the time he stalled the monthly Wing shoot has come about and “negated the need” on Squadron
MOD-approved black hessian?? What a load of :mad: baloney!! The hessian is provided by TG6 when the final inspection is done.
Whilst shooting once a month is good, shooting more often (& at weekends or within holiday periods if desired) is much better!
You are also independent if the Wg Shoot option gets restricted/cancelled or limited on places. You can develop marksnamship in a much better & structured manner.
Resurrect your plan & push it through.
[quote=“MikeJenvey” post=20290]MOD-approved black hessian?? What a load of :mad: baloney!! The hessian is provided by TG6 when the final inspection is done.
Whilst shooting once a month is good, shooting more often (& at weekends or within holiday periods if desired) is much better!
You are also independent if the Wg Shoot option gets restricted/cancelled or limited on places. You can develop marksnamship in a much better & structured manner.
Resurrect your plan & push it through.[/quote]
again i agree and you are preaching to the converted…
although more than once a month shooting would be impractical for me given everything else i do (doing so on a Sqn night would reduced our training rooms from 4 to 0)
Fortunately i look after the Wing shoots and in the last 18 months have only cancelled 1 full weekend and another just shooting due to lack of interest.