Senior Officer claiming expenses from squadron funds!

Adult Staff Execs
1

I need some realistic feedback please in response to a situation where a OC of a squadron having been relieved of his post and promoted to Wing staff, laid a claim for phone calls, plus additional items from the squadron funds.

Despite protests form the new OC and staff and committee, it was deemed to be completed in order to resolve the matter in the simplest way.

Please can anyone give me any idea to policy allowing this or other suggestions as to weather this has been done somewhere else on another squadron etc.

2

The 2 statements (“relieved of his post” + “promoted to Wg staff”) don’t really meld together. Relieved of post normally equates to incompetence/inability; promoted is the opposite…

If that was a correct description of the process, then I would be far more worried about that than any admin/accounts issues!

Deemed by whom?

How much for all the claimed items? Were the additional items appropriate to claim for?

Anything not meeting with the requirements of ACP 10 (Administration of ATC Funds), or, ACP11 (Administration of Civilian Committees in The ATC)?

3

[quote=“lippylion” post=12599]I need some realistic feedback please in response to a situation where a OC of a squadron having been relieved of his post and promoted to Wing staff, laid a claim for phone calls, plus additional items from the squadron funds.

Despite protests form the new OC and staff and committee, it was deemed to be completed in order to resolve the matter in the simplest way.

Please can anyone give me any idea to policy allowing this or other suggestions as to weather this has been done somewhere else on another squadron etc.[/quote]

Were the expenses incurred legitimately on squadron business, while he was still OC?

4

Not sure I like sticking my neck here but what the hell, as i believe this to be wrong so more details below.

Clarify, Ex OC squadron claims for in excess of £500 for phone calls made on behalf of ATC duty!! In addition to claims for toner cartridges for a colour laser printer!

I as incoming OC object and say not sure this should be happening. I’m told to wind my neck in as OC Wing agrees that a reduced amount of £260 approx be made for phone calls going back three years.

  1. The squadron had no phone line as the then OC sqn being the same refused to have it re-installed.
  2. The claim for the printer turned out to be his own personal colour laser printer!

However this individual still walks away with some of the squadron funds (£260 approx.), a claim only made as he leaves and unknown to anyone else on the committee or staff, including me as new OC Sqn.

He is then promoted to wing staff and again to Sqn Ldr.

To me I believe this morally wrong as no effort had been made to claim these expenses, on previous occasions, and as you would expect every quarter or monthly, from whenever the initial claim should have been made!

5

Does he have phone bill evidence of each call and the cost? Given the cost of phone calls, £500 is a hell of a lot of money considering that most mobile contracts come with free minutes. I am an ACF det commander and most of my business is conducted via email. Only very last minute stuff is done over the phone.

Surely expenses should be reasonable? £500 on phone calls doesn’t sound reasonable to me. You might also object on the basis that the expenses weren’t submitted within a reasonable time period!

6

Neck well and truly stuck out!

As Mike Jenvey says, are the expenses he is claiming justified iaw ACPs 10 and 11? Phone calls? Depends I guess, was he organising an overseas trip or something that required a lot of calls? Most of us just absorb a few calls a week, but anything excessive and I would probably ask for a refund. But more likely, if it was in the course of an activity, I would request a refund and then make sure the costs were included in the overall activity accounting. Printer cartridges? Seems fair enough if he did all the Sqn printing.

What will be important is whether your independent Auditors were content with the expenditure. I’m not an accountant, but in my experience of running small RAF and ATC accounts, he has to give details of what the expenses are for; simply saying ‘phone calls’ probably won’t be enough. And the Auditors may ask why he left the claims for refunds so late.

7

The Wing commander has zero say in deciding when funds can be authorised.

8

I forgot ACP300 - Instruction 318 lists those appointments entitled to claim such expenses. Sqn CO is not on the list - but perhaps there was dispensation based on the 'phone situation? However, the Instruction states what has to be done for such expenses, namely time element (quarterly or half yearly) with control of expenditure limit. For 'phone expenses, a log should be submitted too. Equally, for each claim, the counter-signing person has significant obligations concerning verification…

This is maybe why things were claimed from Sqn funds? However, no purchase or expenditure control, no (?) ability to verify the claim? How can OC Wg approve expenditure fom a Sqn account?

An independent audit/inspection of the Sqn accounts?

9

After I stated that this was unjustified, wing treasurers looked through the claim for the phone calls, which it has to be said where all itemised(Reams of the stuff).

It was decided that the claim should be allowed, by whom I have no idea in the first instance, All I know is that the wing commander and the then wing chairman, wanted the thing put to bed!

The claim for the printer cartridges was refused, I think to satisfy me and to reduce the final amount claimed. All on my committee did not agree, myself included and without any direction to the committee members either, they found it questionable at the time.

This happened to be his wife who was treasurer at the time before resigning at the AGM, the cheque being written either before or just after, with NO mention of this cheque being written in the first place, and No-one ever remembering any such authorisation or mention of such a claim.

Pressure was then placed on us as a committee to settle the account and I needed to concentrate on getting the squadron sorted, no kit, no staff, no phone line and broadband and the Sqn was a complete mess.

Reluctantly we agreed to the final amount being paid, but under pressure from wing chairman and me from OC Wing! I strongly believe that OC wing placed pressure on others in order to keep this internally and quite.

  1. Who has the last say at claims been made from sqn funds being paid.
  2. I agree with cygnus maximus as to why he left the claims for refunds so late.
  3. Does anyone else know of anyone claiming calls now and again over the years for ATC related stuff and what is classed as ATC related?
  4. How can this be justified on a phone bill with just phone numbers, they surely would all need cross referencing!
  5. Who orders a an independent audit/inspection of the Sqn accounts?
  6. This I also believe has led to my demise, having been removed from squadron on becoming ill and placed into the NEP quick sharp - another story.

Finally, thanks for the advice, I like a lot of people I know, have never claimed for phone calls in all the time I have been doing this, so this has really got my backup - its simply wrong as far as I am concerned.

No-one is prepared to listen or do anything about this and yet everyone moans that some people get away with murder. Especially when after they get promoted to wing staff and to Sqn Ldr paid.

Surely this is a question of integrity and morality

10

I have to say that this is a classic example of a Sqn Cdr thinking he had the God-given right to do whatever he wished on what he probably saw as his ‘personal’ Sqn. When are we going to make sure our Sqn Cdrs understand that they are running their units on behalf of the Commandant and that they cannot simply do as they please?

Back to the subject though. The issues that Lippylion has brought up probably aren’t a unique case, but it does highlight how isolated Sqn Cdrs can be when their C of C thinks it knows better and tries to ride roughshod over proper regulatory processes in a mistaken attempt to ‘hide things’.

I have not read the accounts ACPs in detail recently, but as far as I recall, a Sqn’s accounts have to be independently audited every year before being agreed by the Sqn AGM and then sent to Wg HQ - advice from someone? Unfortunately, there seemed to be a huge conflict of interest previously with the CO’s wife being the Treasurer and therefore who provided the independent assurance of proper spending throughout the year? The phone calls are probably admissible expenses, albeit hugely late and against the generally ‘done thing’.

Where do you go with this now my friend? Probably brace yourself for some tedious reading through the accounts ACPs for starters just to get your facts straight. I would also stand by to be surprised over things that may appear to be ‘morally wrong’ but are admissible in accountancy. I would definitely start by writing to your Sqn Chairman (copy to Wg HQ) and ask him to have the accounts properly audited, nobody should object to an audit provided they have done everything by the book. If he’s under pressure from the Wg Chair to ‘get things done’, then simply go higher to the Regional Chair. After all, as we have seen on here with the antics at Thurston Sqn, even the Commandant seems to want to get to grips with errant committees.

Ultimately, I applaud you for your integrity and for taking the moral high-ground, there should be more of this. Unfortunately, however, there are occasions where we just have to suck up what we find distasteful but legal.

Good luck and keep us posted.

11

£500 does sound a touch steep and/or unrealistic. That’ll be around £200 on toner, thus £300 on phone calls.
That’s a lot of phone calls!!

Though, for the sake of looking at the other side of the coin…if I had legitimately had to spend £500 out of my own pocket for the benefit of Sqn business I would expect to be reimbursed.

12

I assume this phone call claim is backed up by phone bills?

13

[quote=“wdimagineer2b” post=12630]if I had legitimately had to spend £500 out of my own pocket for the benefit of Sqn business I would expect to be reimbursed.[/quote]£500 would possibly just cover my legitimate expenses for the squadron for 2013 so far, not including around £1500 which has been pre-approved and is reimbursed. The difference is: I choose to pay it and I choose not to seek recompense for the good of the unit.

I believe that it is unlikely that any individual can run up a genuine expense of around £300 on telephone bills for a unit carrying our routine work, even over 3 years or so.

14

Yes, I find that hard to buy as well.

15

I suspect that most of us do! Unfortunately, this is probably one of those areas that regardless of whether the majority find it morally wrong, if the individual can list the calls made and justify them, then reimbursement is permissible.

16

There is a bit of me that thinks good on him. Although to store it up does seem wrong. We can only claim 3 months in arrears at work for expenses, longer than that, unless there are extenuating circumstances and it is signed off by the HoD, tough.

If the expenses that many of us incur but just absorb, were correctly recorded on squadron accounts and reimbursed, it might highlight just how much money is “donated”. The problem is much of the time is the odd couple of quid here and there and even if it’s more we sort of feel wrong about getting it reimbursed. But should we?

17

Have to agree with Glass Half Empty. Perhaps we should all claim what we should, after all, the ACO only gets most things done with a significant percentage of staff goodwill.

But then we;d overload the insufficient;ly manned up HQAC and expose other wider effects of this austerity rubbish thats pervading Scoiety.

Doing more with less? Don’t make me laugh.

18

Thanks for all of your replays, but it does seem that most, like me see it as immoral on on the other side of the coin, we don’t always claim what we should.

To me this was a case of sour grapes being removed from squadron as OC and me put in his place. Although been promoted to Sqn Ldr shortly after this seems rather like society in general, reward for failure!

Finally I would like announce to verify the questions below, moving on from the above and without starting a new topic.

  1. Clarification of VR(T) officers with a disability - Is this allowed, I have been told that my next extension will be refused on the grounds of my illness?

  2. How would you feel if you where removed from sqn as OC without any prior warning or communication except being sent an email which went to an old email address not being monitored!

  3. What exactly are the rules for going sick on some form of sick leave. - how long and where can you find the appropriate paperwork?

  4. Is going into the NEP the Only other choice open until you are fit to return.

  5. Having got out of the NEP ( with difficulty) now been sent to a squadron which now involves a 20 min walk (for me) whereby a request to return to my former squadron has been blocked - not interested in OC, more adj as this was my home squadron and walk from bus stop for me is 5 min, hence far easier to get to.

Again thanks for any thoughts and replies in advance. B)

19

On the subject of disability - I declared my medical conditions, which included a pensionable disability and no one said anything. I also feel that I give more to my squadron than some “able-bodied” members, so I don’t think it should preclude any service.

20

[quote=“lippylion” post=12784]Thanks for all of your replays, but it does seem that most, like me see it as immoral on on the other side of the coin, we don’t always claim what we should.

To me this was a case of sour grapes being removed from squadron as OC and me put in his place. Although been promoted to Sqn Ldr shortly after this seems rather like society in general, reward for failure!

Finally I would like announce to verify the questions below, moving on from the above and without starting a new topic.

  1. Clarification of VR(T) officers with a disability - Is this allowed, I have been told that my next extension will be refused on the grounds of my illness?

Depends on the disability really. I am classed as disabled as I have problems with my legs - but I try not to let it affect me although I cannot take part in long marching parades and I declared this on my application for VRT. Essentially does it or could it affect your abilities in relation to your Duty of Care? If not they can’t really discriminate against you. However when it comes to extension of service that’s obviously a different matter.

  1. How would you feel if you where removed from sqn as OC without any prior warning or communication except being sent an email which went to an old email address not being monitored!

That’s bad drills but without the relevant information at hand as to why it was done that way I can’t give advice about it that would be beneficial.

  1. What exactly are the rules for going sick on some form of sick leave. - how long and where can you find the appropriate paperwork?

Short term sick marked as sick on the register with copy of sick note for the reason so it does not affect 12 hour commitment. Long term sick NEP process because obviously Wing needs informing so they can arrange appropriate cover where required.

  1. Is going into the NEP the Only other choice open until you are fit to return.

For long term issues yes.

  1. Having got out of the NEP ( with difficulty) now been sent to a squadron which now involves a 20 min walk (for me) whereby a request to return to my former squadron has been blocked - not interested in OC, more adj as this was my home squadron and walk from bus stop for me is 5 min, hence far easier to get to.

What are the reasons behind it? Is it because there is no longer an established post at the squadron you prefer to be at? To me reading between the lines there is more going on than you are telling us! As for the walking issue is this your disability?

Again thanks for any thoughts and replies in advance. B)[/quote]

My bold.