https://sharepoint.bader.mod.uk/QM/P%20Letters/P%20Letter%2013-04.doc
Are Sectors Commanders & a possible 14 Sqn Ldrs per wing a good idea?
IMO Sector Commanders are a good thing with the following caveats:
- They regularly visit the units in their sectors
- They take the lead for organising sector activities
- Encourage squadron interaction within the sector
- Encourage squadron staff to take a lead on a specialist area within the sector (Sector NCO/Sector ATTO etc.)
If they visit the units in the sector rarely and don’t attend sector activities then their purpose is not met. an 8 unit sector should see the sector commander visit each unit once a month.
[quote=“themajor” post=8337] - Encourage squadron staff to take a lead on a specialist area within the sector (Sector NCO/Sector ATTO etc.)[quote]
Does this mean each wing will be appointing sector ATTO and Sector NCO’s and Sector RCO / SAAI / WI…
I think they should, however, i think some OC Wings will not like it…
We’ve been running in 4 Sectors for many years with a WSO per sector, and more recently (only a few years ago) a Sector NCO for each.
Works okay.
Well its not like we are top heavy on the senior officers already is it…
Are there lots of spare officers to fill the six promoted out of sqns. You can count the number of Fg Offs on one hand in our wing and we have SNCOs running sqns already.
Is this a reply to what has happened to a sqn in N&S Wing and a reduction in the authority of a sqn cdr?
In my wing it would be a sector of 4x4 and 2X3 with the DF still under the control of the sqn i would think.
Sound like an easy life, I will have to check the cornflakes packet in the morning…
[quote=“themajor” post=8337]IMO Sector Commanders are a good thing with the following caveats:
- They regularly visit the units in their sector [/quote]
Actually… I’d rather they come down when I actually need them, and the less often that is the better!
[quote=“wdimagineer2b” post=8342]We’ve been running in 4 Sectors for many years with a WSO per sector, and more recently (only a few years ago) a Sector NCO for each.
Works okay.[/quote]
Likewise.
We’ve had areas for donkey’s years with a SWSO and JWSO and a WO, let’s call them Sector Cdr, Dep Sector Cdr and Sector SNCO. They peel up for the AI and if invited. It has worked wihout interference or intervention from the shinies at HQAC. When the sector thing came out a few years ago we all thought, we do that already so we’ll ignore what HQAC had sent out. I think (or hope) we’ll continue in that manner.
As squadrons we work with whoever we want either in our area or outside. It provides cadets with the opportunities, so does it really matter who you work with? If we organise something we do it with our normal crowd and “invite” other sqns and if they join in they do and if they don’t, they don’t, no drama either way. I think whoever came up with this at HQAC needs to get out of Cranwell and find out what really goes on, rather than spewing edicts about things they know nothing about.
The other question is are there enough officers in a Wing to furnish all these Sqn Ldrs? We have been told for God knows how many years we are well under the establishment for Officers and SNCOs (loads of CIs) to run squadrons, and other Wings are in a slightly better/worse state than we are. Therefore it will fall to sqn staff to undertake the area roles as described and given that they are on a sqn already, that’s more of their spare time gone up The Swannee. Some will no doubt look at it as a developmental thing, but resultant need for taking more of your spare time will be the same.
Cost of these new posts
6 per wing
*34 wings
=204 new posts at flt lt pay
*28 days
5712 days
*£75 (Can’t remember exact days pay rate)
=£428400
And 1771s to travel around each of their allocated sqns.
In this difficult financial period where we all have to tighten our belts and make sacrifices
That is a lot of money…
[quote=“the silverback” post=8356]Cost of these new posts
6 per wing
*34 wings
=204 new posts at flt lt pay
*28 days
5712 days
*£75 (Can’t remember exact days pay rate)
=£428400
And 1771s to travel around each of their allocated sqns.
In this difficult financial period where we all have to tighten our belts and make sacrifices
That is a lot of money…
[/quote]
Why would it mean new posts at Flt Lt pay? Surely, Flt Lts will be selected to fill these positions, not Plt Offs/Fg Offs?
And even if you’re talking about promoting people to Flt Lt to take over Sqn Cdr roles, thats only likely to be £20 or so more, per person, per day, as thats the difference in pay between Fg Off and Flt Lt.
In our Wg, Sector Cdrs (contrary to the P-Note) hold the duty as a secondary duty and are all current senior Sqn Cdrs, therefore, there’s no real change in staffing other than the fact they now wear Sqn Ldr.
[quote=“the silverback” post=8356]Cost of these new posts
6 per wing
*34 wings
=204 new posts at flt lt pay
*28 days
5712 days
*£75 (Can’t remember exact days pay rate)
=£428400
And 1771s to travel around each of their allocated sqns.
In this difficult financial period where we all have to tighten our belts and make sacrifices
That is a lot of money…
[/quote]
These posts already exist in many Wings and most if not all Wings have had the “sector model” incorporting these since time immemorial, it’s just HQAC (as ever) haven’t got a scooby. If these new jobs come into existence they will be done by existing staff as an extra to their sqn role and normal life. This was how it was mooted to us at the COs annual mtg when the sector model was suggested a few years ago. It was tried and it didn’t work, purely for the reason stated, time. Another way in which HQAC haven’t got a clue about the average member of staff in the Corps.
Frankly it seems the way we operate, and have done for decades through mutual cooperation/consent without a rigid reporting system of OIC this/that at the most basic level of the Corps, baffles the great and the good at HQAC, who have been institutionalised into this mindset.
[quote=“the silverback” post=8356]Cost of these new posts
6 per wing
*34 wings
=204 new posts at flt lt pay
*28 days
5712 days
*£75 (Can’t remember exact days pay rate)
=£428400
And 1771s to travel around each of their allocated sqns.
In this difficult financial period where we all have to tighten our belts and make sacrifices
That is a lot of money…
[/quote]
Your math’s are flawed. These people already exist at Fg Off/Flt Lt rank therefore there is no “extra” days in the system.
As I said above Post; Posts not people
Whether there are 200 officers within the corps to take up these posts is another thing altogether.
I agree that the actual cost will not be £400,000 but the cost of the extra posts will br £400,000.
This week in the London Gazzette we commissioned 5 officers into the VR(T) over 30 left and this sort of number is not unusual. This is the problem that HQAC needs to sort and not the creation of 200 officers with a scraper ring.
comment withdrawn
You will probably find that there is a mindset of offering promotion opps as a way of encouraging people stay. If there is even the smallest shred of evidence for this, it again shows how much there is a lack of understanding of volunteer staff, within HQAC.
Sector commanders - in my experience locally - a waste of time.
not willing to take any responsibility, sloping shoulders.
and its not as if we are top heavy with officers or have a waiting list of people wanting to join as officers.
yet again a complete disregard for the real reason we are here - the cadets.
As a Squadron commander I just see my autonomy and responsibility being eroded.
[quote=“397k” post=8366]Sector commanders - in my experience locally - a waste of time.
not willing to take any responsibility, sloping shoulders.
and its not as if we are top heavy with officers or have a waiting list of people wanting to join as officers.
yet again a complete disregard for the real reason we are here - the cadets.
As a Squadron commander I just see my autonomy and responsibility being eroded.[/quote]
i find it a shame you have that experience. as for us (i cant speak for the CO mind) our Sector officer is very hands on (with the Staff, not the Cadet training!!) and turns up at least once a month
he organises Sector based weekends (AT or FC style camps), Air Rifle days at one of his Sqns and nearly always has something to check on a monthly visit so keeps the admin in check.
however as Perry Mason indicated, it would be nice if he came down when needed and not always at his convenience.
a neighbouring Sqn and Sector i was previously at the Sector Cmdr would step in for the CO whenever he was away, i thought that was commendable that they made the effort to ensure tehre was a “senior” officer present at the Sqn when teh CO was away with work for example.