What do people think of Sector Commanders? Do you think they are useful and help cadets and staff achieve more? Or do you think they would be better placed running units, increasing personnel on squadron’s with less staff.
My wing has four sector commanders, who do not run units and four sector WO’s who are on a unit.
We see Halley’s Comet more often than we see the sector commander, which isn’t a problem, but makes you wonder what it is they actually do the rest of the time, given no one else sees him more often. It is annoying when as a member of squadron staff the expectation is you do something in the Corps and yet Wing and Sector Officers seem to get away with not a lot, bar I would say Wing Sports Officers. Just as well these people don’t get paid!
I always wondered why we had specific area/sector Wing Staff and even more so now with the staffing problems, it would be better if they were actually attached to a squadron, not necessarily in their sector, but with the remit to get involved if there is a problem the sqn cdr can’t deal with.
They’ve never actually done anything to help people do more. Like all squadrons we seem to gravitate to a group of people we do things with and not necessarily in our sector.
Absolutely not….
We have the Wing split four ways each with a WSC.
Do the Cadets benefit when ours visits (every 6-7 weeks?) no….typically the visit is some kind of check, quarterly this H&S that. Ok so they can combine the visit with an MOI assessment but is part of the visit not the reason for it.
Ours however is better than the rest of the Wing. We see ours regularly, they indicate their 2x monthly schedule in good time, and have organised events (air rifle day) for the Sector which does bring us together more than we would otherwise.
Despite this lack of Cadet benefit, do they have a place? I think so, if they are active.
As we see ours regularly we have a continual dialogue of what is going on, how problems are being fixed and a feeling of “they are on our side” as they take an interest, whereas others are more likely to see Trump on Sqn than their WSC answer an email!
If nothing else it means we see someone from “Wing” almost monthly who can escalate up and feed news down. The role is to act on behalf of the Wg Cdr who would burn out trying to do the same for the Wing.
At least you see yours.
I’ve had mixed experiences of Sector Commanders.
On the good side, I’ve been in a Wing that the Sector Commanders also double hat as Wing Staff Posts - AT, Shooting, DofE etc and they’ve been effective in driving forward not only Sector events but Wing events in their area of expertise. So yes, they can be helpful.
On the bad side, I’ve been in a Wing where the Sector Commanders are nothing more than Sqn Ldrs who interfere in areas out of their expertise and offer nothing constructive. They again double hat but no activities are ever forthcoming as a result, overworked OC’s are running activities for multiple Sqns to actually get things done and as a result, the general feeling was what do they actually do?! So on that side, no, they’re not useful.
My current Sector Commander is always at the end of a phone or an email if I need something but rarely see him and in fact rarely need him as I’ve been running Sqns around the UK for longer than most of the current Sector Commanders have been in the Corps, but that’s another story!
Their use depends on what they do…
We’ve had two - the first was a complete throbber and a WSO promoted from OC because he was an awful OC. He liked parades in his honour.
The second is great - he acts as supporter, facilitator, and coordinator.
Personally I think they should be optional, if a group of Sqn’s wants to have a sector commander, or chair, or coordinator, or liaison bod then it should - and if not, it shouldn’t.
One of the problems with them, even when the job is done well, is that Sqn’s come in different tastes - 3 of the sqn’s in our sector are AT/field craft/outdoor Sqn’s, while the other is an academic/aerospace Sqn who’s cadets and staff appear to be allergic to sunshine and mud. That is something that needs to be addressed - what’s the point of a sector weekend when one of the Sqn’s never terms up, or indeed 3 of the Sqn’s never turn up?
You could say what is the point a sector weekend.
I think by and large you choose your friends, whereas squadrons in sectors are like relatives, you don’t choose relatives, with the exception of a husband/wife. I would sooner do things with people I get on with and have a broad mutual liking as opposed to some of the people in our sector, who I think are in it for themselves and do things to say, look how good I am, with the cadets as a secondary concern.
From a different view point I’ll spin you this dit. In Sea Cadets, several SCC units are grouped in to “Districts”. Districts are led by volunteer District “teams” under one volunteer District Officer (Lt Cdr). (A District Officer probably equates geographically with a Sector Commander although a DO has the authority within his or her District equivalent to a Wing Commander such as authorising MSSC budget, training, competitions and travel, dealing with P-matters, etc.)
The point to make is that some Districts suffer the inevitable consequence of low adult volunteer numbers in unit, therefore, how does a District Officer reasonably expect to create a full and effective team at District level? So - visibility wise - do SCC units see or get effective support from the DO or the district team? With such low CFAV numbers to go around, the available District team inevitably focus on the really struggling unit(s) who themselves hopefully get a good level of support. The consequence for the rest of the District is they may not see the DO or District team for many weeks or months - maybe just the annual inspection?! Units who are strong and effective without ‘external’ support carry on regardless, of course, thinking the DO doesn’t care, or is lazy, etc, etc, when the DO is just tied up in time and effort with one or two units. Another tragic side effect is ‘satisfactory’ or ‘lower than satisfactory’ (my own terminology) units who haven’t been so disastrous to appear on the radar of either District or Area (Area has equally poor numbers to go around), will carry on into the ground, perhaps, before action is taken to provide urgent support, with still as few overstretched volunteers!
I don’t know, therefore, if Sector Commanders suffer as District Officers do, where strong units don’t have the need to see them regularly and they therefore feel “what is their role?” when perhaps the Sector Cdr is working hard with units needing their attention? The bottom line is CFAV appear to be poorly recruited and poorly retained at all levels in all Cadet Forces. There aren’t enough to man the units and therefore to appoint to a District (or Area) role, just robs units of an invaluable resource. Coupled with unit staffing issues comes the pressures on CFAV that they will look to progress up the organisation just to get out of the pressure cooker and to “have a rest” in a District/Area role, which itself is understandable although still ultimately problematic.
You also now see more often the double hatted (and triple hatted) CFAV, however well intentioned, it often leads to poor delivery in some aspect of their role(s). But National and Area permit it to happen. They know the recruitment problems, but fail to address it and consequently add to every CFAV’s burden.
I don’t think I’ve seen mine 6 times in the last 3 years…
I think it’s very dependant in who you get and what you want from them.
The Commandants view when they changed the old WSO role into the new WSC role was that they would actually Command their group of Squadrons. I’ve never actually seen that happen because that’s not the way the organisation works. As an OC your Sector Commander can’t actually make you do anything in the same way that as an OC I can’t make my staff do things.
Most I’ve dealt with tend to still act like the old WSO role, they come in they do what they need to do and they go away again. (Be it interviews, MOI or whatever)
I’ve had some great ones, but I’ve had 1 bad one and 1 terrible one. The bad one didn’t even get round his 8 Squadrons once in the year he was in post so what was the point of him except to wear a scraper and whinge that we did our own thing. The terrible one was quite clearly in the organisation for his own benefit, he knew that most of the staff in the Sector were friends and tried to play us off against each other, telling lies and spreading gossip in the hope of getting himself power over others. He did things like trying to get the whole sector to do an extra Remembrance Day parade in the afternoon centrally, it was quite clear that his reason for wanting it was nothing to do with Remembrance but to do with him standing at the front of a big parade, he then sulked when everyone said no.
For me the ideal is someone experienced who is available when I need them, but who lets us get on with doing our own thing, who doesn’t try and impose their own vision on the Sector but who is able to advise and assist when necessary.
Unfortunately experience as shown the majority of wing staff (or ours at any rate) are those who are fed up with, bored with or just can’t cope with being on a squadron. If these then become sector commanders like our last 2, as far as they’re concerned getting off a squadron is a blessing and they have little or no interest. Not that it is a worry, as when they have turned up they get in the way.
Luckily we so far haven’t had one of those who use the ATC to make up for shortfalls in their own lives.
It’s very much “Horses for courses” some wings have an excellent team of wing training bods, do they need sector commanders to add a level of administraton, probably not.
Other wings have less wing organised stuff and so the onus falls onto squadrons working well together. In this situation a good sector commander will coordinate these sorts of things, become a facilitator, have plans, ideas, etc…
It depends on the person and persons involved. I believe it can be a good job, for the right person, who can do good in their sector. With the wrong person, it can cause more problems.
So to answer the OP, yes they are a good idea, just get the right person in.
Hello folks, yes I know this is an old topic but one I wanted to pick folks brains on.
Anybody got any fresh insights?
Is there a clearly defined role for sectors and their staff written down anywhere? If there is a link or a pointer would be welcome.
Ta in advance.
In my view - and experience - the concept has been doomed to fail from the offset: it’s a role called Sector Commander, but what works is a Sector Coordinator.
If it’s carried out in a way that facilitates joint efforts/projects, acts as a discrete source of advice for OC’s and staff, mediates, encourages and negotiates, then it’s a useful and productive role - but if someone actually tried to act as a Sector Commander and starts bossing very independently minded OC’s about, it will end very badly.
Our sector commander has been the WSO, however as said it became a coordinator role.
We had a meeting when they set it up the sector and the problem was we all do fixed community events and we all build in time off at weekends, so we had as I recall 4 or 5 weekends, where we could have done joint things, but the cadets weren’t up for it. So trying to coordinate joint activities was a non-starter. The sector meetings now are a Chinese or curry night and more social. Things get pushed out as sector events and sqns attend if they can.
I’ve worked over many years jointly with one squadron in our sector and 2 others from across the wing, which we have continued to do so, as the staff get on and work well together.
I always felt the sector model was forced on us and not going to work as HQAC/Wing/Region thought it should. Like so many things in life you develop your own networks.
Sector Commanders (SC) in our Wing has resulted in a few Sqn’s losing their OC. A few SC’s have stepped away from the role due to too much faffing about or it wasn’t what they signed up to resulting in a few more Sqn’s losing their OC’s.
The way I see it is this: imagine a pyramid. You take OC’s from Sqn’s and put them in higher up positions and maybe give them a promotion. Now Sqn’s are struggling to fill their OC spot which may result in WO’s etc filling that spot.
That pyramid is now upside down with the tops spots filled and at Sqn level you are balancing on the pointy tip. (I know what I meant when it came into my mind) 
We’ve seen our SC 4 times in the last 6 months or so and each visit that I’ve seen has him checking health and safety folders and the main parade board where the H&S Officer has his hundreds of H&S forms in plastic sleeves that no one reads.
We were told that SC’s would be arranging sector days getting the 5 Sqn’s in our sector to do various activities together and getting DofE rolled out. Has anything like that happened? Nope! A thing I have noticed is many Facebook sector posts trying to arrange activities but hardly any staff making the effort.
Have we seen any benefit of a SC? Nope! We do our thing and Cadets are happy.
Why try and make sqn OCs the “sector commander”? It would be as it seems to have been found, a recipe for disaster.
The most important thing
Seeing as sector commander is one of only a few routes for.promotion. for those its important to (and I cannot stress how little I give a shiny turd about promotion Sqn Ldr) that’s the reason they take it.
If you were suddenly to say, “hey you non Sqn OC Officer working not nearly as hard as your average OC, here’s a promotion above the boss you used to volunteer under…” how do you think that would go down?
I already treat SCs with the utter contempt they deserve, as health and safety box tickers and new CI checkers.
They serve no purpose and the layer of management at this level should be removed asap.
If Sqn Commnders cant get H&S stuff right they shouldn’t be an OC.
Hard core for 8am I know.
Apparently we have a SC. Seen them at my unit once in the 3.5 years I’ve been with the squadron. Utter waste of time and a rank.
We always had Sector Commanders, they were just called Wing Staff Officers, how much has really changed?