Rules on SI as Sqn Commander

Sorry should of said the flt lt is an rafac officer and the sqn leader is an raf officer

Yeh, I think that @angus understood that to be the case. The rank of the RAF officer was irrelevant - the OC of a RAFAC Sqn does not need to be the highest ranking person on the unit, itā€™s the person appointed by OC Wing to hold that role.

There are RAFAC Sqns where the OC is a Flying Officer, but there is a Flt Lt on the Squadron.

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i believe in that case there is even less reason to have a Sqn Ldr as the CO.

I have met several SI who are SNCOs but none have been ā€œSNCOsā€ at the unit, leaving it to the CFAVs even though in some cases rank and experience is vast in comparison to the CFAV in the ā€œSqn WOā€ role

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Rank does not always equal superiority. Certain situations will require or lead to a hierarchy that plays outside the rules of the usual rank structure.

In this case, the appointment of OC grants power and authority to the person sat in that chair, regardless of the rank of any supporting CFAV/SI on their unit. A visiting Wg Cdr should also follow the instructions of that OC as a guest at that unit, because the OC has the authority and knowledge to enforce any local policies or hazard control measures.

Activity commanders, RCOs, ECOs, NGB holders or other SMEs/SQEPs will have authority through appointment, qualification, or experience in some matters. A Sgt RCO could boot a Sqn Ldr off their range if they deemed it necessary. A fieldcraft instructor regardless of rank would take instructions from whoever is acting as ECO on that exercise. Youā€™re a Flt Lt OC and youā€™ve delegated the running of an event to a CI? Unless thereā€™s a safety or policy breach that will bite you as authorising officerā€¦ You do what that CI says (perhaps politely guiding their hand and advising them if necessary due to experience levels).

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And just to add, this happens in the real military too, particularly in those trades where officers and junior ranks do similar jobs. A Cpl nurse who is trained in particular situations may well be placed in charge of a group of nursing officers, and the officers will do whatever the Cpl tells them to do.

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(adding to examples offered by Giminion)

or simply on the gateā€¦

the SAC on guard (although accept it is mainly MPGS nowadays) has the control over anyone who approaches the gates and can offer instructions to them, regardless of rank :wink:

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Or even a Flt Lt as captain of a transport aircraft would have authority on the aircraft over the ACM

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I realise that I opened this can of worms, but I think we have enough examples now.

Has anyone managed to get definitive word from policy or asked a WExO (to back up the anecdotal occurrences)?

We currently have a SAC as OIC of a squadron so Iā€™m guessing itā€™s ok. (Although he is a reservist rather than a regular).

Reallyā€¦ wow!

Most SIs for appointment need to be Cpl rank or above, although this can be varied by Gp Capt.

Appointment as in holding a squadron role? As Iā€™ve been an SI since I was an LAC.

There is no rank requirement for a SI as I recall in ACP 20, just an age one and have completed a certain part of their training.

I believe heā€™s an ex-CFAV too so isnā€™t coming at it from a purely SI experience.

They need to be LCpl or above for range quals but nothing else

Intersting, just looked. Their definitely used to be a rank requirement.
It was something like ā€˜must have completed basic and trade trainingā€™. Then something about ā€˜ideally ranked at Cpl or aboveā€™.

Cant find it anywhere now.

Happy with just an age limit. I could recruit half of a near by barracks now!

that is interestingā€¦
certainly ten years ago, i knew more SAC SIs than I did any other rank.

of those many are now Sgts(!) but in my experience at least it tends to be joining at SAC or Cplā€¦those who are Sgts or higher have been with us (RAFAC) since their junior ranksā€¦

We had an SAC SI with us for about 5 minutes, he was very brazen in that he only came to us to help him with his Cpl promotion. Havenā€™t heard from him in 18 months.