Royal Canadian Air Force now likely to revert back to using RAF Ranks

Cadets The Crew Room
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http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/sunnews/politics/archives/2013/07/20130709-153319.html

Defence Minister Peter MacKay speaks with the crew of Canada’s first new CH-147F Chinook helicopter June 27, 2013 at the Ottawa International Airport

[quote=“JESSICA HUME | QMI AGENCY”]

OTTAWA - The Royal Canadian Air Force is next in line to go retro on its rank titles, the Defence Minister confirmed Tuesday.

A day after announcing the Army would revert its uniforms, symbols and ranking system back to original British Army and Commonwealth designations, Peter MacKay told reporters the same would next be applied to the Air Force.

“We’re looking at a number of ways in which we can continue to restore historic symbols, ranks, insignia that respect the history of the Canadian Forces,” he said. “So specific to the Air Force ranks, we’ll look at it.”

MacKay continued that the government believes “this is consistent in keeping with what was stripped away and taken from the Canadian Forces in 1968 by a previous government”.

While MacKay called the move something of an homage to Canadian military history, military historian Desmond Morton sees it otherwise.

“This is an homage to elderly vets who vote Conservative,” Morton told QMI Agency. “This is highly political.”

Morton recounted a story about an Air Force pilot “who told me about how he has to buy a new uniform every time they change these things, which is stupid and costly.”

The government has said the cost of the Army name changes will total $245,000, though no numbers have been put on the Air Force upgrade.

“I guess MacKay can say this is cheap, and I mean, for him, it will be,” Morton said. “But let’s not confuse military desires with Conservative political ideology here. It looks like the Conservatives are getting ready for the 1915 election.”[/quote]

wilf_san

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How much do you reckon it will cost the MOD to change the crowns when the Queen dies Wilf? Supposing that Charles takes the King’s Crown like his Grandfather?

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In other news… The Rifles are to revert to the age old name of “Chosen Man” instead of Lance Corporal.

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I saw this about the Canadian Army the other day and thought ‘Hoorah!’, although it seems to be causing controversy over there…

We may not have to. The idea of ‘King’s Crown/Queen’s Crown’ is a bit of a misnomer. The crown on badges etc is just a representation of the crown chosen by that monarch as theirs from the number of crowns amongst the crown jewels. It just happened that Elizabeth II was the first to change crowns in a while because the crown worn by her father/grandfather/great-grandfather was too heavy for her.

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[quote=“tango_lima” post=9249]I saw this about the Canadian Army the other day and thought ‘Hoorah!’, although it seems to be causing controversy over there…

We may not have to. The idea of ‘King’s Crown/Queen’s Crown’ is a bit of a misnomer. The crown on badges etc is just a representation of the crown chosen by that monarch as theirs from the number of crowns amongst the crown jewels. It just happened that Elizabeth II was the first to change crowns in a while because the crown worn by her father/grandfather/great-grandfather was too heavy for her.[/quote]

I’d tend to agree with this- there is a real possibility that the St Edward crown emblem will not be nationally changed from, at a future succession. Which would mean that the last person in ‘active service’ to wear the so-called ‘King’s Crown’/Tudor crown, would be the Duke of Edinburgh: he still wears that pattern in uniform.

But regarding the RCAF- I think it’s good news that they’re slowly-but-surely reverting back to traditional structures and ranks. And Canada did the world a big favour by proving that sticking every armed service (and Cadet) into one single rigid structure and green uniform just does not work.

wilf_san

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I agree Wilf, but in these days of ever incresing ‘jointery’ it was probably seen as a sensible step forward.

Out of interest, on many occasions I have seen RAF officers wearing their normal ranks with US ones too, I did it myself in the Gulf, as people often have absolutely no idea what a Flt Lt or Sqn Ldr (or any other of our commissioned ranks) are! I have often thought that having the same ranks as the Army would be a good idea, after all, it works for the USAF and many others. Indeed, it would save a lot of time trying to explain our rank system to our Army colleagues who seem oblivious to anything that isn’t wearing pips or crowns!

As a thinks piece, perhaps when we created our ranks, we should have gone for a more obvious link with our 2 ‘parents’. I believe, and I stand by to be corrected Wilf, that the RNAS had Flt Lts and Flt Sub Lts to differentiate their aviators from normal seagoing types. Did they also have Flt Lt Cdr and higher? It seems logical, to me at least, that we could have gone for Flt Maj to indicate a flyer? Just my musings, but I’d be interested in people’s thoughts on what ranks we could have had!

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[attachment=85]ImageUploadedByTapatalk1374096296.628263.jpg[/attachment]

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Why the need for all three services to be the same?

If I (a mere part timer and baby sitter of the RAF’s future) know the Army and RN ranks, is it much of an issue for them to know ours?

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I’m sure RAF recruits learn about the rank structure in all three services during GSK classes in the first few weeks at Halton. Surely our army and navy brethren do the same.

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Indeed they do, or at least they should do! But the detail doesn’t appear to stick for any longer than the end of the lesson.

Royal Engineers LCpl once asked me what the stripes/bars were on my uniform, I told him they were our rank badges. He thought that confusing, but I explained that all RAF people get issued with a barcode reader to identify who was what - he believed me!

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Army ranks in the RAF???!!!

NEVER!!! :mad:

Although I would swap ugly blue-grey for khaki…

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As I’m popping to India & Sri Lanka for a few weeks I decided to look at their respective Air forces- a lot Russian hardware and the odd western aircraft
but you can spot the RAF historic links…

Sorry cant get the Sri Lankan crest to come up …google it

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RN Ranks are pretty similar to RAF Ranks.
The Rates or NCO Ranks are tricky to non-believers.
Addressing the Master-At-Arms as “Master” is unusual at first.

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[quote=“mike-foxtrot-lima” post=10408]RN Ranks are pretty similar to RAF Ranks.
The Rates or NCO Ranks are tricky to non-believers.
Addressing the Master-At-Arms as “Master” is unusual at first.[/quote]

RAF Ranks are identical to RN ones for officers if your ignore the curl and brake it all down just to lines.

Rates Ranks are a bit more than tricky! Master-At-Arms is only one.

You can have an Able Rate, Engineering Technician, Aircraft Handler, Chef, Steward, Medical Assistant, Staff all names for Airman/woman

Then Leading Hand, Leading Regulator, Leading Chef, Leading Engineering Technician, Leading Steward, Leading Medical Assistant, Coxswain all names for Corporal

Think you get the idea…

That why Leading Hands are Killick, Petty Officers are PO or RPO, Chief Petty Officer are Chief or Master. Keep it short keep it simple.