Royal Arms Rank-Badge for WOs: still on for 2020?

We weren’t talking about regular service.

If a specific individual meets all the criteria (capability/service/attitude) why on earth would they not be promoted to WO(RAFAC), or indeed WO(RAF) etc just because they are under the age of 30?

I’m sorry, you’ve invented that regulation. For example, there could conceivably be Master Aircrew WOs in regular service in their late 20s, as long as they meet all the OJAR criteria.

Entry into service (and discharge from) both the armed services and cadet forces adult volunteer service has minimum & maximum ages. Everything else between these points discriminates only upon ability: failure to do so would breach equalities legislation.

But it is an anomaly. A substantial one. Why should the vast majority of RAFAC WOs, uniquely amongst all other uniformed individuals appointed to such a rank, not wear the same Royal Arms emblem as their notional peers? It would be an entirely-alternative situation if every other rank emblem in RAFAC (>and all other Cadet Forces Adult Volunteers<) was deliberately-different from their regular counterparts. But they’re not.

Which will be a large part of the reason why this change reversion is taking place at last.

Three other relevant factors on this:

¤ Currently all Lord Lieutenants’ Cadets wear an appointment badge which is the Royal Arms Warrant Emblem. Suppose it was to be announced that wef Apr 2020, only RAFAC LLCs were to change their badges to a small gold crown…where would the logic or fairness be in such a requirement?

¤ Within any uniformed / ranked organisation, it makes sense for individuals of the same rank to wear the same rank-badges. If there >was< an actual difference in rank seniority or basic command authority (ie an actual WO1/WO2 hierarchy) then the seperate badges would make sense. There isn’t, so it doesn’t (nb I’m differentiating between fundamental rank itself, and positional appointments such as RWO/CACWO etc)

¤ (…and this is an eternally-weird one…) The crown badge by itself is wrong, as an emblem. Because it’s ‘outranked’ by the design of the CWO wreathed crown. Yes, it’s correct insofar as 1938 RAF WO3s wore an unwreathed crown (alongside briefly their Army equivalents) but, because it was maintained in the ATC to indicate AWOs after the advent of the rank of CWO in the 1980s, it’s actually the incorrect emblem for what it’s attempting to convey (It’s almost as illogical as claiming that two chevrons outrank three chevrons…and, that two chevrons are then directly-equivalent to three chevrons with a crown)

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No they don’t.

LLCs in Wales have Prince of Wales feathers…

image

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No, the way it worked was that up until July 1988, AWOs with 8yrs service and otherwise-qualified (courses/post) were aĺlowed to wear the full Royal Arms badge.

Was unaware, many thanks

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and, apparently, no apostrophe.

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It appears not.

If our CWO is in tonight I’ll verify whether or not their badge has an apostrophe!

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And ditto I’ll check the English badge on my Chief Petty Officer.

A quick search through “appointment photos” (for lack of a better term) online didn’t turn up any with a visible apostrophe.

Yeah, Commandant confirmed this yesterday at National Band Competitions when assigning WO Whicher as a Command WO with the tate and lyle’s.

Confirmed what?

Tate and Lyles for 2020. No specific date, just mentioned that all WO’s would be getting it next year.

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Of course, she won’t be around to actually see that through so can say what she likes :wink:

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Looking forward to that day

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Classic end of management job BS then!

Can confirm, no apostrophe.

My LLC badge has an apostrophe, but it isn’t the Welsh design.

Looks like you win on both counts. :wink:

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Same for my Chief.

All.
We are the only cadet organisation is the only one where by the SNCO/WO rank badges does not follow that of its parent organisation, when all others do.
Also when you are operating on a army camp you are forever having to return a salute, at one camp the RSM is hot on paying compliment so if I fall to return the salute I will be made aware of it with a few days
Further contrary to what was though we are all in the RAFAC, why is that officer still wear the RAF TRF and SNCO/WO still wear the ATC, plus officer can wear the MTP rank slides but again SNCO/WO are not permitted to wear, so when are both side of the unformed element going to be brought inline with each other, half job again.

A topic that was allegedly under review yonks ago, but has not yet been finalised/properly addressed. Appears to be a lag in the system with other priorities coming to the fore, rather than anything less benign.

Officers do not wear the subdued rank slides, only blue on MTP backing, there is no non-subdued alternative to SNCO/WO slides. Therefore we aren’t truly “not in line” with each other.

There have apparently been discussions, heard it was looking hopeful at one point (all mostly unsubstantiated but the source was one that should be in the know), but haven’t heard anything recently. Personally, I doubt it will happen - in any situation where you are looking to improve cam and concealment (the only relevant requirement), the solution would be to remove them. At that time, rank is likely irrelevant anyway.