Apart from the brief at the end of the year anyone heard anything whether we have the tents available to make this a camp in 2024?
takes breath
Communication? No.
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Lessons learnt from previous years.
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more correctly this is the question to ask.
however in OC RIAT Det defence he has recently become a father and life will more than a little different for him with regard spare capacity between his new family, full time work (heâs a paramedic) and the âhobbyâ of being OC RIAT Det.
while weâd normally see a warning order in November and the first deadlines around Jan/Feb nothing has been released yet that I have seenâŚ
I thought the whole idea of all these pauses was to give HQ perm staff control of these events? So why is it still heavily reliant on a CFAV as the âOC RIATâ?
Is HQ want that control, then they need to take it properly, and manage it with perm staff imo.
To quote the commandant in his Christmas message, HQ have âtaken back controlâ of nation events.
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OC RIAT and DepOC RIAT should be and employed role considering the size of the event and the risk that they are holding. Ideal for for HQ RAFAC CoS and one of his staff.
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out of interest are their equivalents for QAIC, JL, D&L etc perm staff or CFAVs?
RIAT started as a B&G Wing event/Camp with what is now recognised as the âOC RIATâ role picked up by the then B&G Wg WExO (known as WAdOs then).
It grew year on year adding in neighbouring wings (No1 Welsh and TVW) and then became a SW region with a couple more Wings tagged on.
then somewhere around 2013 it became a HQ camp, in that it was lead by HQ (rumour was at the time they were scared that they had no oversight on such a large camp with was run on a multi-region scale, other said it was jealousy that CFAVs managed to build the event up to the success it got to without HQAC!)
Oddly when B&G Wg WAdO stepped back/down from the role I am not sure why it didnât go to SW RC to head up as that seems the logical next step, instead became a CFAV âSecondary dutyâ - then when HQ took it on became a âprimary roleâ with the CFAV attached to HQ
If QAIC, JL, D&L and others are run by perm staff then yes I can see the argument for the same with RIAT. if however HQ are reliant on CFAVs to lead these big national events then it would take a big step change to change the role to perm staff - it would upset some CFAVs who have worked their way up to senior positions on those camps/events and i suspect would require a resource issue at HQ who have never been known to be flush with staff or indeed have a reputation for exceptional or timely results.
if an advert for OC RIAT/QAIC/JL/D&L camps were written what would the candidates look like? Civilian event planners? soon to be exiting Sqn Ldrs/Wg Cdrs who are looking for a âquieterâ retirement job?
and how much would they get compensated? the current âcostâ of RIAT in terms of âpayâ is the uniformed portion of 200 CFAVs who attend for 7-14 days in July.
As some back of the fag pack calculations:
Taking a ballpark figure of ÂŁ100/day for 100 uniform Staff for 10 days = ÂŁ100,000 in VA*
if the role was offered at Sqn Ldr level (which I am guessing is WExO grade) that is a ~ÂŁ38k - that is a big âcostâ increase to an already expensive event during a time when weâre having budgets slashed.
I guess as CFAVs have proven that they can run RIAT as a volunteer under HQ management (and have done for 10+ years, and without HQ for 25+ years) it doesnât suggest to HQ they need to be making this a salaried position - donât fix what isnât broken mentality
*I am making a lot of assumptions here, but as there will be some Sgts attending for 14 days and some Flt Lts attending for 6-7 it is difficult to make the numbers accurate without more data or a lot of effort so I am using these numbers for neatness
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QAIC & JL are CFAV as far as Iâm aware.
Not yet, AFAIK, but I thought HQ didnât like the fact these events were being run at such a high level without direct HQ oversight/management. Thus, a pause in 2024 to review how these things are run
It doesnât need to be someoneâs job full time imo, but should form part of someoneâs role that already exists, such as Dep CoS OPS.
I thought the same as i was typing out my previous reply - but would that person be willing to juggle all of those responsibilities and be expected as the âleadâ to attend each year.
I am not sure of the timings of the others having only shown interest in RIAT, but it is a big ask that as part of your work commitments that Project Officers must commit to two weeks in July for RIAT and 2-3 weeks in August for Aerospace and D&L Camps, plus whatever other commitments are expected on JL and QAIC (there is reason to include Band camp, Choir camp and whatever other ânationalâ camps take place too)
that kind of summer camp schedule would ruin family life and would need some very understand family who accept holidays between June-September are not likely due to the build up to, and following post-event requirements for the busy national camp schedule.
I was a CI in B&G in the early 90âs when RIAT was a B&G+ project - one of our staff team was involved in planning/running it. He was an effective member of our Sqn for about one month a yearâŚ
unfortunately there are still staff like that nowadays - in it (the Corps) for one reason and do enough to not get too noticed only so they can do the big ticket item they want to do.
to a point i donât see any issue with that - this is our hobby after all, and if someone wants to attend RIAT and play their part there then we should be happy for their commitment and time
the other side of me thinks that isnât really how we play the game!
At one point i was on a Sqn where three of our CFAVs were committed to RIAT for 10+ days each year, but their commitment for the other 50 weeks was never in question - but I recognise that wonât always be the case, be it for RIAT or another other national camp
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All these camps will be interesting to see how they move forward. If, as rumoured, VA is cut to mid-teens per person, how will staff balance RIAT, Wing and squadron activities.
Based on what ComdtAC said in December, there is no way additional VA can be allocated just to ensure key events, such as RIAT, can operate; or shouldnât happen !!
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for me on the basis of preference.
this is MY hobby and MY time - if I choose to commit to RIAT over delivering 2 Bronze NNAS sessions for Squadron that is how the roll of the dice ends up.
I may end up sticking with the local community i live in and âserveâ - seeing opportunities for those in my community maybe a bigger draw for me - and RIAT will have to miss out.
For me it is personal interest, and that shows with everything i do (and critically donât do) with the Corps - I do what interest me and I get something out of it.
if i donât get VA out of RIAT anymore it swing the pros and cons needle further one way
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We all know without the RAFAC supporting RIAT the Airshow would not only cost more for added security et cetera, but it wouldnât run. Given that we are now in February and guess what still no warning order HQAC are leaving it till the last minute.
Do they realise people have to get holidays authorised if they want the support.
Not only that the earlier wings are notified the earlier coaches can be booked.
Maybe the way forward for these big events is that a huge donation goes towards VA especially as they want uniformed CFAV to attend and support
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Respectfully it doesnât require a Warning order to book holiday.
The 2024 dates are known (in fact the show dates are listed for every year between now and 2030) and shouldnât take much time to work out the dates the RAFAC will get attending based on previous experience
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Very respectfully, knowing if the RAFAC is participating in RIAT 2024 for those wishing to be staff etc maybe essential for forward planning as someoneâs annual leave may have to be prescheduled or staffing numbers only allow for a certain percentage of staff to be on leave at any one time.
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All staff on duty for the duration of the camp.
Staff must be physically and mentally fit to conduct this task.
Staff can claim VA for the duration of the Camp.
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Thatâs if the total VA for an individual is more that the total days at RIAT 
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