So we have a new staff member applied to join the Sqn as a CI. She was in the ATC years ago and apparently has a letter which says she retained Flt Lt VR(T) rank on leaving. How will this work when she’s joined the Sqn? Is anything written down about this anywhere?
As far as I know, if she’s a CI she’s a CI, the same as any other retired officer. As a courtesy, though, at dining in or similar formal events she could be titled as Flt Lt RAFVR(T) (Retd) and allowed to wear her former mess dress.
But for all intents and purposes, she holds no active commission, and is a normal CI.
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This is a grey area
If they want to remind people they were a pretend RAF officer with post nominals they can crack on it’s just ink on paper and doesn’t really mean anything.
Wearing uniform after retirement for ex VRT isnt necessarily permitted the transfer of VRT to CFC was a bit of a 
show and it left a ton of ambiguity. General practice is no, but could ask OCW if permitted for appropriate events, technically but it’s a bit Walter Mitty in my opinion
Current RAF steer/practice is now retainment of wearing uniform post retirement is now reserved for 1* (Air Cdr) and above only
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I could kind of understand it for ex Wg Cmds. But just gets a little silly at Flt Lt. For RAFAC that is, full respect to any ret regulars!
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Might be just me, but I really don’t see the harm in letting Flt Lt Jane Doe RAFVR(T) Retd wear their mess dress for a dining in event.
I thought at one point there was some requirement for Flt Lt and X years service to be allowed to wear uniform as a retired officer?
Regardless, the only retired VR(T)/CFC officer I know that does wear uniform (only for dining ins at our squadron) was the unit’s OC for years and has more than a few bars on his CFM. Letting him keep that tenuous link to the uniform once a year or so really doesn’t seem like it does any harm to me, and just seems to be a generally nice thing to do.
I know we follow the RAF policy and guidelines, but I’ve always been a bit of a pragmatist on things like this. I don’t see the need for the fight, it would just serve to be a bit of a morale killer.
I agree that wearing No1 (outside of weddings/funerals where it has been explicitly requested) or using the post-noms for non-rafac stuff would be a tad walt-y though.
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Point of order 
- As VRT were commissioned & subject to the armed forces act & could give a lawful order to regular personnel along with with being court martial, they were not “pretend” RAF.
This comes up quite a lot.
So the technicalities on this are that it was Flt Lt VR(T) with a certain number of years of service.
The permission to wear uniform is in the retirement letter but it is restricted to specific ceremonial events & the uniform must remain fit & in good condition. Permission to attend said events in uniform came from the paid staff not the volunteers so if you are a pillar region then probably the region cos.
To answer the question directly Note that this is ceremonial only.
Down the squadron & at other events when they are on duty, they are a CI & addressed as such. If they go back into uniform they probably would come back straight as Flt Lt.
As an alternative view form CAC Dawn Mccathety became a CI with a Sqn in Cornwall. Operationally on the Sqn she would be a CI but at dinners or parades there probably wouldn’t be an objection with her wearing uniform
Mess dress is certainly normal.
I don’t think anyone would really wear other modes of dress though.
Retired officers who are DLs do it, but as has been mentioned above, only if they’re 1* (?) and above and therefore have a military uniform with higher status than that of the office they’re holding (where they are permitted to wear existing military uniform).
On the use of title, they’re just “Mr / Ms J Bloggs”.
I know many will, in a context with military connection, sign emails etc with their retired rank. But they do not hold that rank. First name address is perfectly appropriate.
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This is a favourite approach of those who move to being a trustee, I can’t recall a Wing Chair who wasn’t at least a VRT Sqn Ldr, still in there signature but not relevant to being trustee.
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Thanks for the thoughts.
There was no hint of her expecting to extend her previous service as a commissioned CI, the question was about how we treat her on the Sqn. Our young, ex-cadet adult SNCO wondered about using ma’am and saluting in connection with her retained Flt Lt rank. We couldn’t find any information on retired, rank-retained officers, hence the question. I’m thinking quiet respect for her previous lengthy service and experience, maybe someone to bounce the odd question off and let her settle in to becoming a CI alongside our other CIs. Mess dress? We can cross that bridge at the time if she asks. I’m sure there will be a few stories in the future to amuse or horrify us at times too.
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That’ll be a nope, the person in question left their commision behind and they will be a CI. Absolutely recognise their previous experience and knowledge though and they will probably make a fantastic sounding board for all and guide for your more junior CFAVs.
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I’ve just realised I could have clarified that I have exactly this situation.
I have an incredibly experienced former OC on my unit as a CI. Absolutely wonderful person and very lucky to have had him come back to us later in life.
He’s a CI in every way, just like the other CIs.
He wears black tie for annual dinners but would be welcome to wear mess dress if he still had it.
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The first is normal for a CI anyway, but the latter… No.
They no longer hold an active rank and although there’s probably still the technical loophole somewhere of being able to salute anyone deemed worthy, it doesn’t need to be applied - why would you want to confuse things by having a saluted CI? Cadets get confused enough as it is.
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Isn’t the wearing of uniform by retired officers covered by RAF dress regulations? Not sure how this applies to CF Commissions though but RAFVR(T) would be relevant.
As for the CI on squadron, as stated by others, that should be the status they have while in that role. I did know of one retired gentleman who was saluted as a CI when he returned as a CI after being the squadron OC. Maybe that was just a local thing though.
We had this exact situation when I was a cadet. Ret’d Sqn Ldr who insisted on still being saluted at certain random times. Then at any opportunity would start 1s and 5s.
Arguably I think the guy was still salty that he was forced to ‘retire’ due to age.
I would like to think, when my time comes, I will happily return as a CI and be treated as such. Or join the ranks of ex VRT as a grumpy member of the CivCom.
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I wonder if this was the same guy I had on my first squadron.
“Retired” Flt Lt (CFAV, not regular) would absolutely chew anyone out who didn’t salute him on a parade evening.
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What an utter belter!
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I would have played with this
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“Salute Sniping” springs to mind. 
And retired or not, it is expected & good manners to acknowledge & return the salute by bracing up or standing to attention even when in civvies.
Oh it would have been a hard no from me.
They can have a pop and I’ll come right back at them 