I guess you know best
how it was described to me was the pay was the long term goal, and the short term solution was as you describe. I guess it all depends on the interest and personal bias of the storyteller!!

which backs up pEp’s point about benefit for added responsibility which it not recognised elsehwhere.

But how much do we do that is not recognised?
I would say 95%+ of what we do doesn’t get any recognition in any way at all. All the parade night and local things we do, get zero recognition and even turning to stand around, march a bit, stand around some, gets no recognition.
I don’t think doing things and expecting recognition is really in the ethos of volunteering like we do.

The fact we get remunerated more than supported expenses is an anomaly within the volunteering community. Our son has just started helping with the kids football team he played for and so far has cost him money and he accepts he’s not getting all or any back, unless he’s lucky.

which is exactly the point pEp is making - if he puts in huge amounts of effort which is not recognise why shouldn’t Flt Lts/OCs not get more “recognition” (pay) on the few occasion they can claim that “recognition”

no here is disagreeing with that point, or even making it.

but there is a disparity between responsibility and recognition. I don’t believe pEp is taking the responsibility on for the recognition (not of pay at least - the kudos of doing so perhaps) buy what is being identified is the “recognition via pay” is not in line with the actual responsibility held

I would say it would easier to justify any RAFAC rate of pay, as long as it doesn’t go higher than the RAF.

You could freeze our renumeration rates at the current level, and forevermore ignore what the RAF do with theirs - it’s not like we receive wages, so no inflation, or cost of living expenses.

I’m not saying that is what I believe should happen mind, just that now we are a distinct separate entity, conventions such as linking our pay to equivalent RAF ranks is no longer needed.

There are people in the volunteer community who take responsibility for things and get little more than a warm glow and have to take the criticisms as and when they come. The football team our son helps out at is bound by FA rules and regulations as much as we can make out and the helpers if they want can do coaching courses etc all at their own expense and he’s looking to start doing these. He accepts it will be an expense but he wants to do it. I couldn’t imagine the uproar if we were asked to pay for courses for the benefit of the organisation.

The biggest problem is the ATC is too linked to and run by people at HQAC who have been in the RAF and expect to keep playing that game and impose in effect rank related responsibilities on people who give up their own time,. which is not really appropriate to us, but they know no other way and can’t get into the community volunteer mind set. If they gave up the uniform and more importantly pay, and became proper volunteers you might see a change in attitude, but they’re never going to do that, as they would stand to lose too much. Then you start getting targets and other work related nonsense that has no place in the volunteer sector, because they need to hold people accountable.

with a different (none RAFAC) hat i wear i know that position well.

i wouldn’t say it is the “biggest” problem, but accept it is a significant noose around the organisations neck.

An organisation of volunteers being managed by a set of full-timers is not unusual - look at the various charities on the high street for instance.
however the point you make is valid, unlike those high street charities or the Scouts, who run the organisation with the organisation in mind - those in charge of the RAFAC all too often approach the Air Cadets with RAF thinking, RAF structures and RAF formalities when the template doesn’t always fit the youth and volunteer format of the RAFAC

I work for an international company and with it have international colleges; in our office alone we have 4 different nationalities, a small number of the diversity on site, and when they ask about the “Air Cadets” i describe it as a “air minded versions of the Scouts” - and for them they get that description.

and in truth in think it is valid.
I have friends who are Scout leaders and other than the age difference of the kids in our charge their roles and responsibility are no different to that of a CFAV.
I described myself as a “volunteer youth worker” as that is my role. I am not some pseudo member of the RAF, that just happens to be a sponsoring organisation

update on the scrolling annoucements shortcut link

They’ve updated the remuneration for this year again now.

So now there was a change in pay on 1 April 19 (dated 24 July) and also 1 August - I thought there’s typically just one change backdated to the start of the financial year?

I really hope not. I don’t want ANOTHER 28 separate transactions coming into my account for the “balance” of the original payments. It makes a mess of my spreadsheets.

What… you keep a spreadsheet of your RAFAC pay?

Why not just open an account specifically for it? Then only RAFAC money in and transfers out.


Fascinating re-read this thread … from a volunteering perspective!

steve679 has it about right …

“I described myself as a “volunteer youth worker” as that is my role. I am not some pseudo member of the RAF, that just happens to be a sponsoring organisation”.

… and it my pleasure to support such volunteer youth workers.


If I opened a RAFAC only bank account I’d pretty quickly be into the red :stuck_out_tongue:


Do we get pay slips?

Yes, they get posted to you but they’re not like “official” payslips from employers. Think its called a Remuneration Notice.

I normally receive mine about a month after its actually paid into my account :roll_eyes:


They’re exactly like 'official’s payslips.

They contain exactly all the same information as any other pay slip.

The only addition they have is a nonsense statement saying that ‘this remuneration is not to be considered as salary’.

Ok. Whatever.

Its taxed.
They take student loan (if you have it).
It has a staff number.
It has the company name and address.

It’s a standard payslip.


Because it’s not guaranteed not regular and some have used this income to support mortgage applications etc.

You also get a P60 at the end of each tax year

What’s wrong with that though? It’s no more or less guaranteed than any other form of income?

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I have to declare it to HMRC as paid employment each year so its pay as far as I’m (and no doubt the tax man) is concerned!


Neither are zero hours contracts, and they definitely are salary