There’s been a split between the other staff at my Squadron on how we should refer to our Cdt NCO’s in discussion…
Some believe that they should always address them as ‘Cadet Cpl, Sgt…’ whilst the majority of us just say the rank. This is something that the NCO’s are getting annoyed with as they are fed up of the inconsistency of it all! They’ve even started saying things like ‘Probationary CI…’ ‘Sergeant ATC…’
Anyone got it in writing how we should address them?
I just say the rank, there is no need to have to call them ‘Cadet xyz’ when you can simply just say the rank!
If I’m referring to someone formally in writing (for example nominal roll, orders, JIs, anything like that) I’ll call them “Cadet Corporal Bloggs” (or abbreviated) because that is their rank.
If I’m referring to them casually in writing or in conversation and there’s no need to differentiate then I’ll go with “Corporal Bloggs” because that’s perfectly appropriate.
For example, I might tell someone to “Go and find Cadet Sergeant Smith” to differentiate from Sergeant (ATC) Smith. Whereas on my unit there’s only one Flight Sergeant Jones so I don’t bother with the cadet bit.
EDIT to add…
That’s all for ‘reference’ - talking about them to someone else.
For ‘address’ i.e. What people should call them to their face (no jokes ) then it’s dead easy - just the rank, no ‘cadet’ part.
i see there to be no reason why calling a cdt Cpl just Cpl, the only time id probably add the cdt is as previously mentioned when their is t 2 of the same last name one being staff and the other cadet. i see no where in regs that state otherwise.
If this is an issue at your sqn, then you must be having a pretty good time all round or a group of teenagers who are far too precious and need to get a life.
My NCOs get referred to by me by rank and sometimes just surname if I’m particularly brassed off. If we have two of the same surname then it’s an initial or senior/junior. What I never do is christian names with cadets. Never heard anyone complain. What does and always had galled me are cadets referred to as mister or miss.
The idea of referring in speech or writing as cadet, rank and name is far too much effort.
In my day we had one WO who referred to all cadets as “you boy” or “you lad”. I don’t recall being anything other until I hit FS and CWO. Did it bother anyone, no.
[quote=“Mike8591” post=18560]There’s been a split between the other staff at my Squadron on how we should refer to our Cdt NCO’s in discussion…
Some believe that they should always address them as ‘Cadet Cpl, Sgt…’ whilst the majority of us just say the rank. This is something that the NCO’s are getting annoyed with as they are fed up of the inconsistency of it all! They’ve even started saying things like ‘Probationary CI…’ ‘Sergeant ATC…’
Anyone got it in writing how we should address them?
I just say the rank, there is no need to have to call them ‘Cadet xyz’ when you can simply just say the rank!
Help much appreciated!
No Offence but it sounds like some of the staff on your Sqn or a bit above their station if they are doing this…
It’s in the old first class book on the ATC. (ACP31?)
Interestingly, it says to refer to Cadet Warrant Officers as just Warrant Officer. Which makes sense as on the whole, (your odd squadron excluded) you don’t call cadet NCOs Cadet Sergeant all the time.
Fair play to your cadets though, I really admire that sort of rebellion. Wait until they clock that all officers are acting above Flying Officer and refer to your CO as ‘Acting Flight Lieutenant Bloggs’ bet that will go down well.
METHODS OF ADDRESS
25. All Officers, ATC Warrant Officers and Civilian Instructors are to be addressed as Sir or Ma’am (pronounced Jam), Cadet Warrant Officers are to be addressed as Warrant Officer and all other cadets by their rank, Flight Sergeant, Sergeant or Corporal, as the case may be.
Indeed, I’ve been referring to CWOs as ‘warrant officer’ for years… always seems to confuse them the first time as it’s invariably the one thing they’ve never been called!
It’s all ‘warrant’, ‘cadet warrant’, see-double-you-oh, see-whoa… anything but the correct form of address! I think it all stems from the days when we only had WOs as the adult NCO rank, and it was felt that it was important to make the distinction between AWO and CWO.
Despite the fact that the AWO was inevitably sir or ma’am anyway!
[quote=“MattB” post=18586]Indeed, I’ve been referring to CWOs as ‘warrant officer’ for years… always seems to confuse them the first time as it’s invariably the one thing they’ve never been called!
It’s all ‘warrant’, ‘cadet warrant’, see-double-you-oh, see-whoa… anything but the correct form of address! I think it all stems from the days when we only had WOs as the adult NCO rank, and it was felt that it was important to make the distinction between AWO and CWO.
Despite the fact that the AWO was inevitably sir or ma’am anyway![/quote]
Exactly what I was thinking. The only people who will have any issue with confusing terms of address are Officers really. As everyone else calls a WO(ATC) Sir or Ma’am, the only people who cadets address as Warrant Officer are Cadet ones.
My sister used to hate being addressed as Warrant Officer, which meant I did it all the more often of course.
Edit: Mattb, you forgot the heresy of “Quo” from your list.
All well and good, but bringing the argument back into 2014, how do you address the difference between an adult Sergeant and their cadet Sergeant offspring or relative, for example?
“Get me Sergeant whatisface” or “Get me Adult Sergeant whatsisface” or “Get me Cadet Sergeant Whatisface” ?
Personally, in talking TO adults or cadets, its as simple as “Sergeant” whether they’re a cadet or not.
[quote=“wdimagineer2b” post=18562]If I’m referring to them casually in writing or in conversation and there’s no need to differentiate then I’ll go with “Corporal Bloggs” because that’s perfectly appropriate.
For example, I might tell someone to “Go and find Cadet Sergeant Smith” to differentiate from Sergeant (ATC) Smith. Whereas on my unit there’s only one Flight Sergeant Jones so I don’t bother with the cadet bit.[/quote]
Not to mention that the rank hasn’t been “Adult Sgt/FS/WO” for some years now, so nobody should be calling them Adult Sergeant.
[quote=“mtbcol” post=18592]All well and good, but bringing the argument back into 2014, how do you address the difference between an adult Sergeant and their cadet Sergeant offspring or relative, for example?
“Get me Sergeant whatisface” or “Get me Adult Sergeant whatsisface” or “Get me Cadet Sergeant Whatisface” ?
Personally, in talking TO adults or cadets, its as simple as “Sergeant” whether they’re a cadet or not.[/quote]
Adult not as in rank, but in the context of “I’m an adult, but I have the mental age of a 6 year old chimpanzee”
And yes, I can use the above sentence, as my wife has used it against me many a time… :whistle:
(but staff and cadets still use the adult NCO term, and will probably continue to do so for a while yet… It’s like the old Ma’am Whatserface chestnut when talking about female officers and CIs
) then it’s dead easy - just the rank, no ‘cadet’ part.