Given the review that’s about to be undertaken to reduce the admin burden on the volunteer, how would you ease the work we have to do?
Bulk upload tool on SMS.
See my post in a previous thread about producing things in a digest, rather than peicemeal.
And bin/rework computer systems that are actually more labour-intensive than the stone-age systems that they replace. Take BADER registers for example - previously we had a book, which went out on parade and was filled in. At the end of six months, some data was collected into a stats return.
Now we still have to take a physical register (which may as well be the book), but we’re then expected to spend 5-10 minutes per night pointlessly entering data - data that in no way actually helps us to deliver training or opportunities to cadets. And don’t even get me started on Ultilearn.
[quote=“MattB” post=6521]See my post in a previous thread about producing things in a digest, rather than peicemeal.
And bin/rework computer systems that are actually more labour-intensive than the stone-age systems that they replace. Take BADER registers for example - previously we had a book, which went out on parade and was filled in. At the end of six months, some data was collected into a stats return.
Now we still have to take a physical register (which may as well be the book), but we’re then expected to spend 5-10 minutes per night pointlessly entering data - data that in no way actually helps us to deliver training or opportunities to cadets. And don’t even get me started on Ultilearn.[/quote]
I beg to differ - the cadets enter our register data and the time it saves doing the 6 monthly stats return is worth it, as well as instant access to data on who hasn’t attended for two months and can thus be discharged.
Did you ever compile a stats return? Because it was a pain in the backside.
I did, but I can’t really see why the register would make much difference. So long as BADER is updated to show when cadets leave then the stats don’t need the register at all - at the most, I really can’t see how anything more than a number of nights attended per cadet (which could be done fairly rapidly) is necessary.
I reckon the stats used to take me about an hour twice a year - with five minutes per night for the register that’s ten minutes per week, five hundred minutes (over eight hours) per year!
Surely the hard copy register took 5 minutes per night… then the manual collation whenever you wanted to find data.
I like being able to see % attendance at the click of a button, as well as absence reporting and easy checking for discharges. I think it’s much easier now.
This is a non argument.
We have to have a hard copy for fire dril etc.
We also had to take that data and send it off in a stats return. The current system just means we do it this little and often. It also makes the data useable. There’s no more work/no time saving.
in the same light as MattB, the enless updating requirements on SMS of data which is recorded elsewhere, namely the F3822
a Cadet goes shooting/completes a WHT that is recorded in their F3822, but after the event (either before departure or on the next parade night) i then need to collect that information off them and fill in their SMS records.
not only is this task a pain, as we’ve yet to use this digital record for anything, but i have to repeat the information for each Cadet as an individual. ie if i have 6 Cadets who all got trained and passed a WHT, or all fire 100 rds grouping practise over the day there is no way to fill in their details as a group (apply details to>select from drop down>hit complete) i am expected to do this for each invidual six times to ensure their SMS record is accurate.
there must be an easier way?
Consent forms is a bug bare, and a rediculous use of paper and printer capacity.
when i was a Cadet your F3822 was all that was required for anything done with the Sqn/within the wing, unless it involved an overnight camp.
now we are required to fill in a consent form and the various medical declaratins each activity we attend…why cant we apply the same importance on consent forms to accurate 3822 recording of medical details??
as an asthamtic i have to print out three forms, now only two forms but three sides of paper all the same…which is still three pieced of paper if i print at home being as i am without a duplex printer* for nearly every activity i attend which is often either forgotten by myself, or failed to be collected in.
*yes i know there are ways around this
[quote=“the fixer” post=6528]This is a non argument.
We have to have a hard copy for fire dril etc.
We also had to take that data and send it off in a stats return. The current system just means we do it this little and often. It also makes the data useable. There’s no more work/no time saving.[/quote]How does it make the data [more] usable?
If I want to check out a cadet’s attendance, I look in the register.
You can rank them (if, say, looking at a promotion and trying to decide between two candidates) just with a couple of clicks, or look at potential promotion candidates with high attendance.
You couldn’t do that just glancing at the register. If you wanted any actual statistics out of it, you have to spend ages pulling all the data together into a usable form.
[quote=“MattB” post=6531][quote=“the fixer” post=6528]This is a non argument.
We have to have a hard copy for fire dril etc.
We also had to take that data and send it off in a stats return. The current system just means we do it this little and often. It also makes the data useable. There’s no more work/no time saving.[/quote]How does it make the data [more] usable?
If I want to check out a cadet’s attendance, I look in the register.[/quote]
I can easily work out a cadets % attendance. I can easily export the data to excel to analyse the Sqn attendance stats. Somebody has already mentioned the “2 month rule”. It’s easier to catch low attenders before the 2 months if I have easy access to stats.
If it’s left on a paper register for 6 months then it’s near enough useless to me.
If I was to look at reducing the admin burden I’d look at bulk upload of data before the register.
EDIT: I can also make graphs…everybody likes a good graph B)
[quote=“redowling” post=6533]You can rank them (if, say, looking at a promotion and trying to decide between two candidates) just with a couple of clicks, or look at potential promotion candidates with high attendance.
You couldn’t do that just glancing at the register. If you wanted any actual statistics out of it, you have to spend ages pulling all the data together into a usable form.[/quote]But you have to balance that against the time spent inputting the data in the first place. Even if I’ve saved another hour every six months, that’s still four hours more admin than was required before.
Whilst filling in the registers on Bader is a pain and does take a few minutes each night, it’s not too odious.
It does then allow us to look at who’s been parading the most (which the cadets take quite seriously as a form of competition!), and has recently helped me decide on promotions because I could see easily that one person only paraded 40% of the time compared to another candidate’s 65%.
For me, the consent forms would be top. Clear guidance on how many and what.
Followed by the monstrosity that is Ultilearn. It gives me much more aggro as a trg off than the paper system used to!
[quote=“MattB” post=6537]Even if I’ve saved another hour every six months, that’s still four hours more admin than was required before.[/quote]If I were to choose between carrying out a simple task regularly which took a few minutes each time (totalling a couple of hours over the year), or having a couple of us waste 30 minutes or more every few months scrabbling around trying to find stats, figuring our who left when and what category everybody is in then I’ll go with our new system thank you very much!
The biggest admin contributors are actually shooting/wpns/ammo and HSE paperwork - not sure how we’d reduce these though.
By the application of common sense?
Ah yes, that. Haven’t seen any of that in a while.
[quote=“steve679” post=6529]
there must be an easier way?
Consent forms is a bug bare, and a rediculous use of paper and printer capacity.
when i was a Cadet your F3822 was all that was required for anything done with the Sqn/within the wing, unless it involved an overnight camp.
now we are required to fill in a consent form and the various medical declaratins each activity we attend…why cant we apply the same importance on consent forms to accurate 3822 recording of medical details??
as an asthamtic i have to print out three forms, now only two forms but three sides of paper all the same…which is still three pieced of paper if i print at home being as i am without a duplex printer* for nearly every activity i attend which is often either forgotten by myself, or failed to be collected in.
*yes i know there are ways around this[/quote]
Very much agree! Why not just have the consent form and all the medical information as a section in the 3822 with the instructions to fill out in pencil of course so things can be amended. They are supposed to have 3822’s with them at all times anyway . . .
Batch updating for SMS is a massively high one for me - and one we were promised from the very beginning (right back when we piloted the system) - yet has failed to materialise! Logging individual range practices, individual WHTs and individual sporting achievements is laborious and very time consuming.
As Batfink says batch updating would be a real bonus and positive. I was expecting to have something like the SMS activity record, where you could create say a flying, gliding, shooting etc etc etc list, which at the end you go through entering the information, then ‘complete’ and hey presto all cadets records updated and more info for the shinies at HQAC.
I’ve never actually felt that Bader has been about saving US at the squadron, time, it’s all about providing others with information.
I was told that HQAC regard that as we have an Adj, they spend all night on 2 nights a week doing the admin, which is probably why batch updating hasn’t been implimented, God knows what we’d do with the time.
Other admin reduction as mentioned consent forms. I had a member of staff transfer and was amazed that we didn’t do consent forms for every little thing we did away from the sqn. For the last couple of years I’ve had a consent form signed every six months and use that to cover the various squadron activities, purely for the additional contacts and any medical bits. These go in a folder and go out with the staff. If we went down the 3822 route as our consent, it would need more space for additional contacts, doctor and medical bits and a bit at as per the bottom of the consent forms, allowing us in exceptional circumstances to OK medical treatment.
It’s about time that the OC and maybe Adj accounts for Bader were taken as ‘electronic’ signatures for all attachments. It happens at work. Very, very rarely do we physically sign claims etc as they are completed and sent electronically. This would remove a lot of cadet bits I have to post. Similarly I still have to request CI and other application forms, despite the fact you can download the damn things.
One thing I would love to see done is remove, what is essentially an admin task, 6 monthly WHTs. In all my time as cadet or staff even as an RCO there was never a requirement to re-train on .22 or .303, only SLR and that was more as a game devised by the armourers or Rocks at camp. I can’t ever remember forgetting how to shoot a rifle, clean it, or what to do if it didn’t work properly.