Where does it define Wg Cdr as the only rank who can approve this? Why not the Wg CPO (given their role) or maybe only the RC (as DDH)?
From the post above, ACP 4 appears to suggest the alcohol rule is Wg HQ, however the socialising rule says
Are we to take that as OC Wg? To me, any officer is superior (me being a lowly NCO)
If anyone suggested to me that I was going for a meet and greet for camp in a bar with cadets of any age I would most certainly be making sure my ass was covered so I would for a start want to see written proof that the wing commander had approved it. Child protection may be in ACP4 but my own protection trumps that document by a mile.
I still to this day don’t understand the obsession that socialising has to be in a pub. Go for a coffee or to a cafe or a million other places that are way more suitable.
4 Likes
Again another argument for >18 yr cdts being classed as staff… Although the law states people who have a duty of care (regardless of age) have similar responsibilities to child protection, this is a pretty odd situation: the ACO says you have “duty of care” over a 19 yr old CWO, but they’re being asked to a meeting because they’re going to be staff on a camp where they have duty of care of (legally defined) children…
Without wanting to get too far off topic…
If you’re talking about pre-camp drinks, yes. ACP20, PI 114 states; “Regardless of age and position, no cadet member of the RAFAC is to consume alcohol whilst on duty. Prior permission, in writing, is to be sought from OC Wg for any cadets who are over 18 who wish to consume alcohol at formally authorised social functions eg. Sqn dinner nights.”
Regarding meeting socially, it doesn’t. Permission from anybody upwards in the chain of command should be sufficient (should the poo hit the fan) to convince people that it was for a legitimate reason. I suppose it depends how much you trust your WSOs/WExO to recognise that you complied with the regs, and that you had no ulterior motive. Personally, I would follow @Intruder thought process, if I absolutely thought that meeting socially was the only way forward - protect myself, get it in writing from someone as high up as I can. Give them every opportunity before hand to say “Moist, this is not a good idea.”
Of course the best way is to avoid social situations with cadets completely, which having a cdt prefix on the emails help with.
1 Like
an interesting use of superior
I know a few officers who consider themselves superior to me even if they are not senior to me!
on the topic of
is a social event “on duty”?
there is arguments that a Dining in night is both - but if you’re meeting in the pub socially is that still on duty??
if it is, can we claim F1771 for the journey to the meeting location (pub)??
it once again highlights the grey area of O18 Cadets.
but as a more general question, if I were to meet with my CO to discuss a concern, worry or get something off my chest and we met in a pub, is that considered “on duty” as we’re discussing RAFAC business - despite being under the influence of alcohol (regardless of being responsible with a shandy each and shared packet of crisps?)
They have a legal duty of care, regardless of whether they are acting as staff or not.
Perhaps the best way to view it is to look at the RAFAC like a business. We, the staff, are managers. The cadets are employees. It’s not good practice for managers to use their influence and position to create artificial social situations with their employees. They may feel uncomfortable sitting in a pub/coffee shop/cafe talking on a 1:1 basis with their boss. By all means, support and encourage them to step up to junior management level, but maintain professional boundaries.
Same! 
Good question. I don’t know. I personally would class creating a meeting to specifically discuss cadet business as a form of duty, regardless of location. And if I would, then I would certainly expect the investigating officer to come to the same conclusion!
No (Sadly) - ACP 300 contains a list of journeys that you can claim for.
1 Like
My employer actively encourages this for an off site 1:1 as it prevents interruptions
1 Like
I guess that depends on the type of business in which you’ve worked. Pub lunch, or pub afters, with CEO, managers, post room staff, &c was always pretty common in the places I’ve worked (pub lunch not so much these days).
If someone feels uncomfortable talking to their boss in a relaxed environment like the local coffee place, would they really feel more comfortable having that one-to-one in the boss’s office?
2 Likes