RAF Recruitment Discrimination

Adult Staff
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@pEp you are entitled to your opinion however people interpret your words…
I understand where you’re coming from; this whole thing is all about impression. I’m on Camp at the moment and we have had a visit from the Station staff about SM. This issue has been picked up by the media and blown into a “the RAF are no longer recruiting white” to make a statement. The regulars are in ‘damage limitation’ mode and it has ruffled a lot of feathers.
Jusr like any other Organisation, the RAF have proposed something without thinking “what would the media think of this if it got out”
Maybe the day will come when the RAF will decide on something and the media will be behind them…

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Which is a real problem the Police have with recruiting candidates from the inner cities that they police. Every so often it gets proposed that maybe we can have Police Officers with low level previous convictions and then the press do the yearly FOI to all of the forces asking how many criminals are in the organisations and that “story” puts paid to the idea.

This is once again showing that the MOD are too stupid/arrogant to learn from other organisations. The Police have worked out how to do positive discrimination without breaking the law. It’s not hard, you can coach people on how the selection process works, you can do that with groups from specific protected characteristics that you want to promote, giving them an advantage over those who haven’t had the coaching.

What you can’t do it select them based on those protected characteristics.

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24

This does come across a little as proposing not bothering and assuming that a traditionally white named candidate would be better. I don’t think it’s what you meant, but have implicitly framed BAME recruitment as wasted effort over white recruitment.

If it were “this is a situation that makes it difficult to get to BAME recruits into training and therefore is partly why the RAF struggles and could be why a greater focus was placed on it to help address the balance, leading us to this messy situation” without the John Smith bit, it probably would have been less controversial.

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How about we just have ‘recruitment’ without trying to differenciate between BAME, White, Male, Female, Trans, LGBTQ+ etc etc - Best person for the job, full stop.

I understand there will be a vacancy for the role of CAS very soon - let’s see who ends up in that role :wink:

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Whichever way you look at this it is systemic of a society that has got its knickers in a right old twist. This is evidenced by the ubiquitous ethnicity, gender, sexuality tick boxes, which appear in all manner of things. Which seems to imply a preferential / protected status for groups.
The responses of some on here feed right into this problem; can’t say this or that because of how it reads and it might upset people.
Society needs to lose the hypersensitivity it has developed and allow people to be open and honest in what they say, about and to whom.
I wonder do people want to be given opportunities advantageously, based on their gender, ethnicity etc, because it ticks a box or all put in the same pot and see who comes out on top?
What I have found interesting is that behind closed doors people are more honest in their conversations.

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I’ve got £1 that says the only people in a position to be considered are old white men.

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Only a few female air officers that I know of.

You have:

220px-Women_of_the_Year_RAF2_(cropped)

AVM Tamara Jennings - head of RAF legal, not really a contender as a legal officer.

220px-AVM_Maria_Byford

AVM Maria Byford - CoS personnel and air secretary. Possibly a contender, but not of the two wing master race.

220px-RAF_medics_Op_Trenton_(Clare_Walton_cropped)

AVM Clare Walton - nurse and head of RAF medical.

340px-Air_Commodore_Suraya_Marshall_
340px-Air_Commodore_Suraya_Marshall_340×510 41.5 KB

Only member here that is a air crew and is “acceptable” to command the RAF is AVM Suraya Marshall. Edited as I got her rank wrong

Although I think she is being “groomed” for it. Currently Commandant RAFC Cranwell. This woman could very well be a future head of service.

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This guy here will eventually be head of the RAF. I would put money on it. My former station commander and the most decorated RAF serviceman since the second world war. Three DFCs.
220px-Philip_Jeremy_Robinson,_OBE,DFC(cropped)

AVM Robinson

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AVM Marshall is probably two posts from a shot as CAS but possibly behind her husband who is also an AVM but ahead of her in the seniority line. Her video on you tube is very impressive.

The first three air officers are all ‘branch’ officers therefore lack the ‘purple’ and NATO ‘qualification’ for promotion further up the chain of command.

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Yes. They are all restricted line officers.
They wouldn’t be allowed to “take the purple” especially as two are medical, one is legal.

AVM Marshall is the choice I think.

And smyes, whilst you say there are others higher in seniority… On reflection, that may be brushed to one side…

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AVM Marshall last year was promoted into post as AOC 2 Group from Cranwell. Now that is a big job.

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It is.

God i hate it but…

  1. She’s a woman.
  2. She’s BAME.

I reckon she will get the post sooner rather than later.

I say I hate it, but it’s not for those reasons. It truly should be the best person for the job. And I mean that. The best person for the job may very well be… Marshall Marshall… :rofl: (I’ll see myself out).
My concern is people will focus on those two bullet points above. Not the fact she’s clearly worked damn hard to be a commissioned officer, air crew, air rank, commandant Cranwell, AOC 2 group.

That’s the key point that’s upset me over this whole debacle. Will they be considered the right person for the job because of what they are rather than who they are…

I hope that make sense and I’ve not made myself look bigoted because I assure you that is not the case.

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34

The other one who maybe one to watch for the future is Group Captain Thomas, OC at Akrotiri, former CO of 12 Squadron with combat tours and now in charge of a very operational base.

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Best person for the job at all times, irrespective of any other boondoggle. To have been Commandant at Cranwell shows that she has the ‘right stuff’ reading her history.

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Having said that.

At one point in 2008 “Babs” was genuinely the highest ranking female within the Royal Air Force …

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Dentist and the one who started this mess - it was her order to pause white male CBAT appointments. She’s not going any further.

IMO, anyone who went in via the professional qualification (and vastly reduced IOT) entry - ie, doctors, nurses, lawyers, etc - shouldn’t be up for consideration as they’ve not had the same promotion hurdles as everyone else.

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38

Absolutely agree with you.

I just work at the coal face. I know how certain people will see it. It’s not a matter of prejudice on the part of those at the coal face. It’s a matter of how it’s perceived by them.

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They won’t be.
They aren’t actually allowed to be as far as I know. QR actually has a list of which trade takes precedence. Docs, dentists, padres and lawyers actually can not command.

Surprisingly, Air Traffic controllers are higher in that structure than pilots.

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Did not realise.

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When I did SERE as a nurse it was four weeks, minimal service history education and no weapons training as we were covered by the Geneva Convention and the promotion topped out as Air Commodore as the Matron in Chief, Director of Nursing services

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