RAF Greatcoat

Jaysus! We only supplied them the photo for AP1358C as a joke!

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Let me have a go with my own ones first, via my tame tailor, and you can then see the finished result.

Whilst it won’t ever be my main Dragon’s Den business pitch, maybe there’s a niche to fill (just an exceedingly-small one)

Aha! Now that suddenly makes a lot more sense!

The traditional way to insignia greatcoats - using the old RAuxAF “A” badges as our guide, was for officers to attach gilt pins through the centre of the rank braid on the shoulder straps - the way VR(T) officers used to - and for WO/SNCOs to wear embroidered badges on the sleeves - WO’s worn down by the cuff, SNCOs worn up top above the stripes.

Could we not therefore use the No1 RAFAC pins pinned on the rank slides/epaulettes like we used to?

Well… We are in an odd area because they just authorised greatcoats and didn’t give any thought to ranking and insignia.

Given that all AP 1358C has to say on the subject is “ANNODISED [sic] RAFAC INSIGNIA MUST BE WORN BY RAFAC OFFICERS AND WO/SNCOs” but it doesn’t say where, and because it also says that rank braid on outerwear should be mounted “on rank slides incorporating “RAF AIR CADETS” embroidered on a backing material matching the host garment” then apparently officers should have both RAF Air Cadet rank slides AND RAFAC pins (put somewhere).

That is patently ridiculous and needs to be rectified.

Also though by tradition WOs/SNCOs should never have been wearing gilt pins on No 1 collars and instead should always have had embroidered badges on the sleeves - so there’s already been a long time deviation from the “correct” method.

God knows what we’ll actually end up with but the word as told to me one once removed is that “RAFAC pins should be worn on the greatcoat lapels”. So we’re obviously just inventing our own regulations for this - and they just haven’t bothered to write them in.

We found 3 when we cleared the hut loft in the late 70s, with ATC buttons. We were told we could have them and were the best thing for walks to the pub and parties in the winter and just general cold weather wear. Toasty when I walked to and from the sqn and my Walkman went nicely into the pocket.

Used to wear one as cadet FS & CWO. Useful length to conceal a piece of 1.5" diameter broom stick inside the coat liner. At the time, on the Isle of Wight, there was a drip-feed of mods / rockers / skinheads who would pop across for some entertainment & do each other in, or, local groups would wander around looking for trouble. If there were no “enemies” found, then cadets would sometimes be seen as fair game.

Ammo boots were quite handy to wear; they could really damage a shin or 2; of course, Doc Martins were no competition for a hard stamp on the toes! As for the piece of broomstick, careful drilling with a long one inch diameter bit would leave a nice gap for some “Pb” shot; cap it with a piece of wood & nothing looked amiss - until you tried to balance on your finger - about 2" from one end. :wink:

Four against one (me) seemed very good odds for a group at one time; oh dear, how sad, never mind! The one with the flick knife regretted his actions quite quickly … :smiling_imp:

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Yeah, why not? Precedent is preferred in the absence of statute.

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Is there even anybody who’d know of the correct way that could bring you up on it?

I’ve asked in VoV (as the Ask the Team in CFC seems to have been closed. Maybe RC(N) has actual work to do…

I note in para 0709 of AP1358

  1. Gold Lace Ranking. Full width gold ranking lace is worn on the sleeve of the RAF No 5 SD composed as prescribed for No 1 SD.
    Excepting MRAF (see para 0703), half-width gold lace is worn on the shoulder straps of No 6A, 8, 8A SD uniforms and greatcoats.

Really?

What you’ve got there appears to be reference for greatcoats worn by those entitled to ceremonial accoutrements such as aiguillettes and/or the Royal Cypher.

In AL19 it was para 0708 instead of 0709 but the full quote was “…and greatcoats worn as specified in para 0704” Para 0704 referring to the ceremonial.

Regular officers wear standard rank braid on the shoulder straps of the greatcoat.

Having seen two officers in greatcoats with Rafac pins through the lapel recently, I can confirm that they look awful. The smartest solution is as above with the pin through rank braid, or perhaps a cloth version stitched on the lapel.

One of the officers didn’t have pins in his greatcoat to begin with, so thinking he was a regular I called him Sir. Yuck!

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Well… The “correct way” is technically whichever way is written in our regulations.
The “historically correct” way was still published in 1358 as recently as AL19 (and possibly later - AL19 is the most recent version I have at the moment) and is as follows (following precedent for RAuxAF ‘A’ badges):

…and for the non-commissioned of us:

I went to go look at some shoulder boards and found this:image

What on earth is that in the bottom left?

They look a bit like those CI pin badges I’ve seen some people sporting.

I got that far, which led to two more questions: ‘What?’ and ‘Why?’

Well who wouldn’t want to be a CIPO?

Hmm! I have a set of shoulder boards in the right rank, as it happens. Hmm…

I’m sure I’ve got at least one kicking about in stores… They are the same as the CI badges but without the letters “CI”.

I seem to remember there being a very short period ages ago where ATC officers wore the ATC crest rather than VR(T) pins but can’t find where I read that