Recently all WWO, RWO and CACWO had a conference at RAF Cranwell. At the conference a discussion was briefly discussed about having an ATC version of the RAF Banner Bearers Sash/Socket, talk was this should be made compulsory for ATC units.
LASER had one at this year’s Corp’s Drill Competition. Does anyone know who, what, why, where, when, how you get one?
Feel free to discuss if we should mirror our parent service or not… I WANT ONE THOUGH.
Surrey wing has one also. I personally think all Sqns should have one as they look smarter.
They can definitely can look smarter, though LASER’s one is awful and some of the others (there was an array on show when the new Corps banner was presented) are fairly poor too. They are also quite expensive - a figure of around £800 was quoted when I looked into it a year or so ago, though I’m sure they could be cheaper.
The banner belt for the corps banner is of the same design as the ones used by the RAF for their standards and colours and it is very nice. It is that design which is, I believe, the design which they have in mind to try to standardise.
It was considered that trying to get every single unit to get that style of belt would be unachievable because of the cost hit on each unit and that guidance on the preferred style of the cheaper belts would be better. It was more likely that these belts would be used at wings or regions for their banners.
Once the matter has been investigated fully and approved there should be details of the design and recommended manufacturer sent out.
Far smarter than the standard brown leather or white PVC carriers.
[quote=“incubus” post=1392]They can definitely can look smarter, though LASER’s one is awful and some of the others (there was an array on show when the new Corps banner was presented) are fairly poor too. They are also quite expensive - a figure of around £800 was quoted when I looked into it a year or so ago, though I’m sure they could be cheaper.
The banner belt for the corps banner is of the same design as the ones used by the RAF for their standards and colours and it is very nice. It is that design which is, I believe, the design which they have in mind to try to standardise.
It was considered that trying to get every single unit to get that style of belt would be unachievable because of the cost hit on each unit and that guidance on the preferred style of the cheaper belts would be better. It was more likely that these belts would be used at wings or regions for their banners.
Once the matter has been investigated fully and approved there should be details of the design and recommended manufacturer sent out.[/quote]
Were you also at the confrence matey?
Personally brown leather with a proper removalable brass insert for the bucket, wins every time.
If Wings and Regions are wasting OUR money on frippery like a fancy standard carrying strap, then someone needs to ask a serious question, rather than glazing over at the shiney. Even if t was sponsored, I’d have the money buy the ordinary one and then spend the rest on something useful.
If my Wing proposed to spend money on something like that, I’d query it and make sure my Chairman asked questions, like why and what’s wrong with a normal one, as they seem to have done the veterans asscoiations good service over the years. Who cares what the RAF have? Appears to be green eyed beasties at play around the Corps.
[quote=“merlin456” post=1413]Were you also at the confrence matey?[/quote]I was there and was kindly outed to the room by wokkaman, not that I go to any great length to hide my identity here.
[quote=“glass half empty 2” post=1416]why and what’s wrong with a normal one?[/quote]Alternatively, what’s wrong with wanting something smarter and fancier?
This is ceremonial…it’s all about smart and fancy.
One could argue: What’s the point of having a formal uniform at all? What’s the point of white belt and gloves? What’s the point of oxford shoes for Officers and WOs? What’s the point of having Lord Lieutenant’s Cadets, or Lord Lieutenant’s ADC Offciers? Why bother having any form of accoutrement?
[quote=“incubus” post=1392]They are also quite expensive - a figure of around £800 was quoted when I looked into it a year or so ago, though I’m sure they could be cheaper.
[/quote]
Although it would of course be best to try and identify a British manufacturer for Air Cadet banner carry-sashes, it’s worth considering overseas alternatives if the price is looking to be as much as £800.
Have a look at http://www.glengarryhats.com…they are well-thought of by the Royal Canadian Air Cadets and the RCAF. If costs are starting at under £300 for a drum major’s baldric, even allowing for postage/insurance/customs, a banner carry-sash could be a lot less than the higher costs above.
(or could be used as a bargaining tool)
wilf_san
Wilf_san: Thanks, thats nice… But not for a Banner Bearer.
Incubus: Are minutes from the meeting coming out or did you manage to take some comprehensive notes?
If you need a fancy sash to look smart then you are either struggling or up yourself.
If it was supplied as standard by HQAC on formation of a sqn fine, but like everything else, bar the hut and some furniture, everything you have on a sqn comes by bloody hard work or benefactor and on need a basis. Plus looking at the picture unless you’re going to store it separately it looks like something that isn’t hard wearing and could become tatty very quickly and doesn’t look adjustable. Our standard/banner is paraded 7/8 times a year and invariably cased and chucked in the boot of a car and carried by cadets of all heights. Thus I want something servicable and practical not somethng that looks pretty for the sake of looking pretty. I would imagine the average Wing and Region standard/banner see the light of day 3 or 4 times a year and is pampered inbetween times. I’ve seen the fuss made over our Wing one, which makes me smile a bit.
[quote=“merlin456” post=1430]Incubus: Are minutes from the meeting coming out or did you manage to take some comprehensive notes?[/quote]I didn’t take any notes but wrote a report for my OC Wg from memory (that nobody else is getting). I imagine that there will be minutes at some point as there were formal notes taken but I don’t know when they might appear.
[quote=“merlin456” post=1430]Wilf_san: Thanks, thats nice… But not for a Banner Bearer.
[/quote]
Merlin456, my point was that the company I mentioned should also be able to make Banner Carry-Sashes to an existing Air Force specification at around half the cost.
I think that the approach of having an embroidered sash for Air Cadet Banner Bearers is a good idea, but there’s a strong argument to say that as cheap a price as possible would need to be obtained, because for most squadrons the banner is not going to be out more than four times a year (as others are saying).
And another factor to think about: if Cadets are taking part in tri-service Banner Bearer competitions, I have a feeling that only plain carry-belts/buckets are permitted. Put another way, although I’ve seen lots of banner competitions, I’ve never seen Cadets from any service using anything other than basic brown/white carry-belts.
wilf_san
You’re kind of misinterpretting my point.
As yet, nobody is suggesting that they become a mandatory Squadron purchase.
They are adjustable and if properly cared for will last for years. Just like Banners.
Our Wing Banner used to be rolled up (wet or dry) in a cardboard tube and left standing in some corner of Wing HQ.
When I took over Banner Drill in the Wing we paraded it on ATC Sunday and from then on I cared for it properly along with my Squadron Banner.
Unfortuntely, a collegue signed it out for an event and presumably returned it back to Wing HQ…so it’s probably now rotting away again over there.
To be fair, Merlin WAS suggesting that they be mandatory (or that it was discussed), in the original post.
But at the moment that’s only conjecture, and was it the intention that HQAC provide the ‘mandatory’ Banner Belt, or that Squadrons purchase them from their own funds? Any decision could yet be reached.
While at a basic level a banner owned by a region, wing or squadron is simply a flag on a stick, one of the reasons the banner competition was introduced is to raise the profile of these banners and make them mean something more than that (and by association, help ensure that the Corps banner is properly treated when in the custody of the various units.)
Although it is not consecrated (which is an irrelevance to me anyway), carries no battle honours and is generally gifted by a local association if not purchased by the unit themselves, a unit banner can be seen to represent the unit and everything it stands for. Treating it with dignity and caring for it properly helps to elevate it above being a mere flag and parading the unit banner becomes that bit more special.
If we are to respect our banners and treat them with care, making sure that white cotton gloves are worn when they are handled, and kitting the banner party out with white belts it is so wrong to try to move away from carrying it in a scabby brown leather strap?
These RAF-style belts are more expensive but they really do look the part and as many banners are gifted to units then it may be that belts could be similarly gifted. If not, fund-raising could be organised for the specific purpose of purchasing a new belt or a grant could be sought. It needn’t steal funds away from other activities.
This image shows some L&SE banners. I can see 3 styles of belt here, all expensive, most ugly and none in the RAF pattern.
Other photos at that site show the Corps banner belt (RAF style) being worn backwards and tucked under a belt. Pet hate of mine.
The one second from the right (lad with his eyes closed) is my Wing Banner belt - and it’s awful!
Yes, I was led to believe this. However, I don’t think HQAC scan make you buy something out of Sqn funds and if they want us to have it then they should source it through supply.
Someone somewhere must have made it for the RAF and have the pattern on file.
maybe we should try and standardise the pattern of the banner before worrying about how it is carried!
