Qual to become a Safety Supervisor


#1

Hi, I’m a CFAV & keen to support our Sqn RCO a Safety Supervisor doing Air Rifle, No8 ( if they are resurrected) & possibly L98/DCCT. I don’t wish to be an RCO myself particularly so could someone please advise what would be the minimum quals & shooting courses I would require to be a Safety Supervisor ? Thanks


#2

Sounds like you’re looking to do your initial weapon training on each and then you might want to consider the K Qual. Sometimes you can get courses purely on safety supervising and general range duties, but the K Qual can offer other opportunities.

Speak to your wing shooting staff as they should be able to steer you in the right direction and help you along the way.

Also, if you aren’t already I’d advise AFA or FAW - always handy to have first aid skills on the range.


#3

Appreciate the reply. I will enquire with Wing but just for now, what is the K qual, how long are these courses and are they run regularly or just a couple a year like SR07’s ? Many thanks.


#4

The K Qual is a one weekend course that, depending on the modules offered, allows those that pass to act as Safety Supervisor, IC Butts and IC Console. It is offered as both a authorisation and a qualification course.

To see the frequency of them, checkout the Shooting Portal where all the teams have their courses for the year ahead listed.


#5

In the old days the “Basic Coaching Course” I took with 5 SATT also gave a tick in the Safety Supervisor box.

I’ve stepped back from the shooting world for a few months and I have a feeling that is no longer the case… Which is ironic…

I can conduct IWT, all the time supervising and watching for any errors in drills - in particular safety errors. I can conduct WHTs all the time watching for errors and subsequently qualifying cadets and staff to fire the weapon, having proven to my judgement that they are safe. I can coach on the range, watching for errors in drills and marksmanship… But apparently I can’t “Safety Supervise”. :confused:


#6

The replacement for the BCC the elementary coaching course does provide a safety supervisor authorisation still.

To answer the OP the best route would be to get IWT completed on the weapons and then get yourself on the K Qual, as Ibbi has said, get over to the shooting portal, plenty of info.

That is due to you not maintaining an authorisation in line with its requirements or allowing it to time out.

The whole point of the SS bit on the old BCC was that staff would progress on to get a SS Qualification either via an SR course or an SASC supported K Qual.


#7

Naturally that was never explained nor even hinted at back then… :stuck_out_tongue:


#8

That was often the case I’m afraid.

I am in no doubt there are a lot of people out there who gained an authorisation at some point and continue to use it after the 12 month period.


#9

Not strictly true, the ECC is designed to be delivered standalone to cadets/staff who want to coach firers to improve the quality of shooting.

SATTs bolt on a Safety Supervisor Authorisation as part of this.

We obsess with 1:1 when we should be looking for 1:3 Safety Supervisor, and 1:1 coach, by encouraging senior cadets and staff to complete the ECC.

And that our supervisors all become qualified by completing the SA(K)17 which also includes IC Butts/Console and is a Qualification and not an Annual Authorisation.


#10

Not entirely correct. The Safety Supervisor authorisation module is not a bolt on to the ECC; it is an integrated element of the course folder and not a bolt on by the SATTs. It is currently only not applicable to Cadets who attend the course due to limitation on only CFAV being able to be authorised / qualified as Safety Supervisors (however this is something we are trying to change!).


#11

Just a question.
How many people do you need (ie can’t run without them) with qualifications of some description to run a .22 range for an evening say.
I stopped having anything to do with shooting from the active side about 19 years ago, due to having small children and running a squadron, but it seems you need more than just the one, like we used to do.


#12

Presuming you only have 2 lanes you can invoke the CTR clause to have the RCO safety supervise so as a minimum:

RCO and Medic. Medic could also do Ammo.

If you have more than two lanes then you would need:

RCO, Medic and a suitable number of safety supervisors to cover the level of the Cadets.


#13

So for two cadets to fire a .22 rifle on a two lane range you would need 4 people. Bonkers, total overkill.

Serious Question, if a cadet has passed a WHT (qualified and authorised as safe by somebody) why do you need a safety supervisor next to them?

Are we making firing a very safe and simple weapon over complicated and hence unsafe (wrong word less safe (more difficult)) so you need safety supervisors.

Back in the day .22 shooting when I was a cadet, no WHT only basic training, RCO was the only staff, very experienced FS or CWO looking after the ammo and no duty first aider. Was it unsafe? I know we didn’t have any range incidents.

L98a2 is a different kettle if fish but .22 on a 2 lane range. 4 people for two shooters. Dose seem like overkill to me.


#14

The modern version of the rules is less about improving safety but managing blame.

Having trusted, “current, competent” cadets or staff acting as supervisors for other shooters, under the overall eye of the RCO, on a 25m indoor range provided for a shooting experience every bit as safe as the current rules but relied on trusting the RCO to make the right decisions. Nobody is trusted any more.


#15

I count 2 - RCO and medic.

Because sometimes cadets forget things, especially if it is their first time firing. They don’t need one on one supervision though. I have had to remove cadets from a range before because they were being unsafe. They might have passed the WHT, but on the range it all went out the window.


#16

I used to run a 2 lane indoor range, single handed and apart from 2 cadets on different occasions messing around while waiting, did I ever tell anyone to leave the range. But we used to be able to use a 3 lane range as well and still only one RCO in sight. We ran ranges like this twice a month and sometimes 3 times a month and never an incident nor anyone being unsafe while firing.
The training used to consist of a lot of talking and the cadets handling the rifles as I spoke followed by 2 or 3 practice details, which was done mainly in one night, but no more than 2. This stood us, in the old days, for .303 as well.
Although this was before we had WHTs and the like and from just reading a WHT crib, I did wonder what happened in the intervening years, to need all that it entails. We have had cadets failed for not doing things, which I would never had worried about, but all the important things they have done.

What do cadets forget on their first time of firing?

Are the young people we have as cadets now that unsafe in themselves that you need to have safety supervisors, who it seems are there only to watch for infringements of safety? The only safety thing I was ever concerned about was if the cadet could hold the rifle steady, given we were in a concrete box, and if not they’d rest the rifle on sandbags.

Are the cadets made ‘unsafe’ because of the training and test, which seems to have them needing to remember things in a sequence, rather than enjoying the activity. A bit like learning to drive and getting your knuckles rapped for not doing things as they want and or in the right sequence every time, which once you’ve passed, you never worry about to the same degree again.


#17

Just because something hasn’t happened to you, it doesn’t mean it can’t happen.


#18

Could be struck by a meteorite, but it is all about balancing the risk with the impact.


#19

Breech explosion due to not carrying out a drill correctly is a pretty big risk with life changing impact for a Cadet.

Ask the ACF they’ve had quite a few which is why all the LPW stuff kicked off.

Losing a range facility due to the weapons system being fired when out of arc is pretty detrimental to training also. The risk and impact are being managed, they are just a lot better understood now than they have ever been hence more controls.


#20

I know no one that has been struck by a meteorite. I do, however know of times when cadets have had to be corrected on the range and on one occasion I had to remove a cadet from it. As mentioned above, if you are running a 2 lane air rifle or .22 range you do not need a safety supervisor. If you are going to run a 6 lane range, you only need to find 2 safety supervisors. Is it really that difficult?