But we get issued berets and aren’t allowed to wear them with any other issued kit. It is a bit weird!
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I get issued with an SD cap but I’m not allowed to wear it with No3 dress!
You must be issued some headdress to wear with the other kit you are given? Are you talking RAF or ATC?
What he is saying that the beret that all VR(T) officers are issued is only worn with privately-purchased uniform (No3 dress)
It is slightly odd - perhaps they shouldn’t be issuing berets to officers at all, but let them purchase one when they acquire No3 uniform.
What about No 3 uniform? Most will have to pay for some if not all of their No 3 uniform.
I work on the basis that, as a VR(T), if I am not issued it, then it isn’t needed, so any events where dress regs are made up to be No3 as mandatory, I am unable to do. I take the same line with Mess Do’s that insist on No5 or Interim and don’t let me wear a DJ.
I pay enough of my cash for equipment needed for AT activities and my other primary hobby of running, so am more than willing to avoid spending money on clothing for standing around in the cold and wet watching people with bang sticks or crawling round muddy fields.
Petty? - Yep, absolutely accepted.
Greens? No, they’ve always been issued, right from when I joined up in 1990. The only uniform I’ve ever had to obtain that wasn’t issued is No5 mess dress and even then I only had to get a jacket which cost me a few pints.
Eh? If you’re an RAFVR(T) officer with a DJ, then you should have all the required components for interim mess dress.
[quote=“incubus, post:64, topic:3013”]It is slightly odd - perhaps they shouldn’t be issuing berets to officers at all, but let them purchase one when they acquire No3 uniform.
[/quote]Please don’t give them ideas!
I have the right components for interim, but No1 jackets aren’t designed to sit in and I don’t want to injure people with flying buttons! That and I think they look awful.
Presumably you do mean for regular commissioned service or with the active reserves?
I understand regular commissioned officers are now issued with No.5s (unsure regarding RAuxAF DEs to commission, presume they would also now be similarly provided-for). Part of the DPSG published discussions above (and elsewhere) were as to whether this should be extended to RAF/RAFR WOs/SNCOs. I believe the considered conclusion was against the proposal.
[quote=“incubus, post:62, topic:3013”]
I get issued with an SD cap[/quote]
You make a fair mirrored point, in your context
[quote=“MattB, post:68, topic:3013”]
You should have all the required components for interim mess dress.[/quote]
Just to mention again (I do this fruitlessly once every five years): although it has now become an enshrined misunderstanding within the Air Forces of the Crown that the term “Interim Mess Dress” has the sense that (for an individual) it is an ‘interim’ state of dress, prior to them obtaining No5 dress, this is NOT what it actually meant originally.
What actually happened is that at the outbreak of WW2, the RAF at Command level issued an “Interim Order of Mess Dress for the Duration of Hostilities”.
This was to reflect the fact that there were so many incoming RAFVR Officers, WOs and SNCO Aircrew that (obviously) had no No5 dress. Accordingly, for formal mess functions (many of which were squadron or station events, and mixed-mess) and boxing competitions, to keep things equal, on an interim basis the wearing of No5 mess dress was suspended until peacetime. Instead, everyone (irrespective of which Air Force of the Crown they directly served in) was required to wear Service Dress with white shirt and black bow tie.
This met with quite a lot of resistance initially in certain quarters, especially from Auxiliary Officers but also from many regulars. But things calmed-down as the war progressed.
Just so you do know the true original meaning of the term ‘Interim Mess Dress’.
(Nb in my opinion this info is more heritage than pedantry. The relative lack of shared appreciation regarding numerous aspect of traditions and histories regarding the RAuxAF and the RAFVR etc (whether on the part of the regular RAF, or the RAFAC) is nothing short of astounding)
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[quote=“wilf_san, post:70, topic:3013, full:true”]
Presumably you do mean for regular commissioned service or with the active reserves?[/quote]
I’m regular, non-commissioned
SNCO’s undergoing intermediate leadership training (IMLC) get issued No 5 mess dress nowadays - it was introduced the year after I did it 
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That’s interesting, always assumed it was the interim state. Always good to know the history of our customs.
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The jackets do look a bit frumpy in the current state, and the branding looks like it is a piece of sticky label, hope they address this, that is if it is ever to come our way.
However for those serving purely in the VRT/ATC, we have to beg, borrow, steal or purchase all of the stuff which you get for free by way of No3 uniform, some of us are also expected to ‘source’ our own No1, oh yes, as a ‘regular’ you get those for free too don’t you.
and your point is?
I merely stated my dislike for the chip hat and the fact that I would never pay for something to wear as an alternative to the uniform I was issued.
I think the point was that your experience isn’t particularly relevant as you get things handed to you on a plate that members of this organisation may need to scrounge or purchase.
Handed on a plate? The last time I checked, the wearing of uniform is part of the terms and conditions of my employment. I get nothing in return for volunteering with the ATC, in fact quite the reverse.
Will you be wearing the new softshell jacket, by the way?
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Quite right… Back on topic…
Not with the huge sticker on it… If they had an embroidered logo like on the polo shirts then yes I would if it was given to me.
And the reverse of those terms is that the RAF provide you with everything you need. Wearing uniform is similarly part of the terms & conditions of my membership of the ATC, yet I get a subset of the kit you are handed and need to source the remainder myself.
I am not saying that this is wrong - just that it is.
If it is issued and permitted in our dress regulations, then yes.
If it isn’t issued then, like the goretex jacket I have, I may pick on up cheap at an airshow so long as it doesn’t look crap.
So the existing GPJ is part of ATC uniform and could be replaced by the new softshell?