But is the “5 years and it’s permanent” real? If I had only been a Flt Lt for a year or 2 I wouldn’t be upset at being demoted, but at over a decade I wouldn’t be happy or amused and would likely either leave or become a CI.
No. I’m on Area staff and also have a national role.
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Personally I’m undecided on that… I raise it as a talking point really, because it’s what our fellow cadet forces do and thus I’d be surprised if it’s not something which is considered.
Given that the Commandant apparently would like to reduce the number of WOs we’ve got to make us less top heavy, I could imagine that we might adopt it too.
As a point of interest, I knew a Master Aircrew at a station somewhere who, two days later, had finished his current post and went back to FS. There is precedent in the RAF too.
Was that under Bob C??
He’ll probably have temporarily held acting rank for that posting but not been selected for promotion at the next board. Someone else, who had been selected, would replace him and he would go back to a FS post. Not too different from being OIC temporarily.
Roger. That makes sense.
Difference being there’s far more experience and knowledge automatically implied as a regular FS than there is a RAFAC FgOff.
This is my view too. Short of uniforms, short of officers, but damn your 10 years as Sqn Ldr and 6 as OC Sqn after 5 years as FgOff and 2 as PltOff, because you’re now equal to someone who’s done 2 total. Or go CI…
Oh and BTW, although you’re all equal in the RAFAC your service in the CCF instead of ATC would have got you time served.
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Exactly! Where do I sign 
Same here. I’ve been a Flt Lt for coming up 15 years now if I was to move to a new Sqn and was put back to Fg Off because I’d moved to a well-staffed Sqn with an existing OC I’d be seriously considering whether or not to continue. That’s 15 years of experience and knowledge. 15 years of holding OC posts in various Wings around the country, some while also wearing SME / Wing Staff hats. That level of experience has to count for something? Especially when I’ve already had it thrown at me that as a Flt Lt I don’t know as much as someone who is a Sqn Ldr - so there are rank-wearing idiots out there that do assume your level of knowledge and experience is based on what rank you are wearing.
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As I dig a big hole in the garden to fit bunker (for the incoming flak).
Regards snco
If Officer in Charge FS. If appointed OC WO
But should we be ‘appointing’ non-comm to command a Sqn (as distinct from ‘holding the fort’)?
Is it not (in our current format) always going to be a ‘next best’ option and ‘temporary’ only until we can find a commissioned officer to take the post as OC?
I’ve known more than a few long term WO in Command, one of them used to be sent Plt Off for development but they never took Command off of him and generally went back to their own units.
Yes, I’ve known some too.
But I wonder, whether the organisation would set such a precedent by formally appointing a WO as OC of a Sqn rather than accepting/‘tolerating’ a situation which isn’t quite as it is ‘supposed to be’.
The other side of the argument is probably that if a non-comm is considering a long-term commitment as Sqn OC, should they not be streamed for a commission?
As a Sgt, all I have remaining is to take cadets flying…how unfortunate 
it would be good to see this possibly incorporate taking cadets to a weekend of flight simulator/ground school during these times.
Absolutely. But how many SNCOs (especially WOs) would willingly sit through another 2 boards, OASC, and take a “pay” cut, just to do the same role that they have been doing for the last 6 months?
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Leaning more into my personal opinion now rather than the Devil’s advocate approach from earlier I’d say that if someone wants to permanently take the role of a commissioned officer then they really should commission. If they are unwilling to follow the ‘proper’ route to take command as OC then they shouldn’t get it.
What would happen in the real world if they refused to do it? They’d probably still take over as OIC; since if they’re being asked to do it, it’s because there’s no one else available…
But then we’re in the same situation we are now and there’s no need to give an automatic promotion. We can just accept that they are holding the fort on a ‘temporary’ basis (and of course, I use the term loosely) and a suitable officer will take over as soon as practicable.
I think the problem is that most of them don’t want to do it. but recognise there’s nobody else who can do it. In all the places I know where a WO is OC, there are no suitable officers to take the command of the unit, so if that WO relinquishes, or is relinquished of, the position, then there just wouldn’t be an OC… 
To be fair, it’s not always individuals that are unwilling. The nearest Sqn to me had a FS OIC for about 2 years, before listening to their WSO that they really should be an officer. He failed the wing board*, went back to being OIC, and then bailed not long after.
What is the point in applying for a job that you are already doing, knowing that if you fail the interview, you’ll still be doing the exact same job…?
Perhaps we should look at an Army style LE commission, for FS and above, for those SNCOs given a command role? Do 12 months as OIC, and the RC automatically sends a recommendation to HQAC for the individual to be commissioned as a FO.
*The board feedback indicated that his answers regarding extra mural activities at school did not score highly enough. This was a 50 something ex RAF SNCO who had spent a tour at Cosford instructing on trade training…
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I’m certainly not saying that we should shoot ourselves in the foot by insisting that only commissioned officers can command Sqns. But I don’t, at this time, see a need to legitimise the formal and permanent appointment on non-comms as OC Sqn.
We can merely stay as we are, with the understanding that it’s just holding the fort.
But it’s already been legitimised all over the Country including within LaSER when I was there with NCO’s being a) appointed as OC and b) being promoted to WO before they had done their 8 years on the basis that they were an OC.