Promotion Criteria

Adult Staff Execs
61

If the Wing is unable or unwilling to run courses, maybe 2 or 3 Squadrons get together and run an informal one? This is what we did long before NCO courses were a thing.

2 Likes
62

I was talking about Bronze Leadership with that comment.

But, I partly agree with you. It’s better than nothing, but I don’t think squadron (or sector) training should replace Wing-led NCO courses. One of the big benefits of NCO courses is standardisation - not only setting general standards for NCOs but also tackling “squadronisms” etc.

63

NCO courses need to go, or rather be merged into the leadership courses (which could then be aligned with each rank).

64

I’m not so sold on that, leadership is useful for everyone, the management part of the NCO Courses is different.

I’d rather pull the leadership elements out of the NCO courses and replace it with training. So JNCO includes presentation skills and SNCO includes instructor Cadet.

2 Likes
65

They’re standardised? I thought each wing did their own thing?

66

Im aligned to this. Theres very much a difference between leadership and management.

If it was my train set, id modulise GSK, Drill, Leadership, NCO Core Skills to be delivered on Sqn/Sector then have a summative assessment at wing level to provide assurance on the training.

3 Likes
67

And yes, id provide the Sqns the tools to deliver that.

1 Like
68

That works for me, but I’d keep the leadership in there too. None of this training is uniquely useful for NCOs and so should be run as ‘Cadet Development’ courses, with the leadership and management aspects of each of the four PTS colours aligned with the requirements for each rank (but without promotion being a pre-requisite).

It’s always bugged me how GSK is crammed into the first part of Class 1 training and then dropped. Modularising it, and the rest of the above, would be excellent content for leadership / development courses.

2 Likes
69

Bring back the old staff pt 2 board

5 Likes
70

Does your OC always do NCO selections?

71

That struck me too. I think PSBs are usually presided over by someone a bit closer to the rank being boarded for.

72

I meant standardisation of drill and uniform etc across a wing, rather than delivering standardised content across courses.

73

Certainly, round my way it’s usually the (adult) SNCO who leads the process for Cpl and Sgt. An officer might sit in but not usually the OC. Sgt to FS is more likely to involve the OC.

1 Like
74

As the final arbiter yes, it’s their name above the door, their responsibility and therefore their decision.

In the old days before we had a set process it was consultative with the OC making the final decision.

Now with a Squadron level process it would be the OC and the SNCO in tandem, but ultimately it’s still the OC’s responsibility and their decision.

2 Likes
75

Sqn OCs should have the final say but consult their Sqn SNCOs

1 Like
76

I’ve taken the process away from my adult NCOs - it wasnt delivering the culture I was wanting & I was getting NCOs who were “good old boys” rather than actually effective.

Sqn promotions are one of the most important thing that a Sqn Cdr can do to set the culture & environment for development & positive change within the Sqn so I would argue the process should always been owned by the OC.

Discuss with the adults SNCOs by all means but the Cadet NCOs belong to the OC Sqn not the adult NCO team.

2 Likes
77

Our Wing doesn’t include leadership in NCO courses any more. We found it took up too much time and was just a repeat of what they’d done elsewhere. We make blue leadership a prerequisite instead (you can argue at the value of that but it’s the most accessible and better than nothing).

I like the idea of including presentation skills at JNCO. MOI on SNCO might be a stretch in the current format of both courses (SNCO and MOI) because you need all the follow up for MOI, which means they couldn’t “pass” the SNCO course until later. I also don’t think there would be time to fit it in, MOI is at least a days training.

1 Like
78

No input from the CIs then?

79

I agree with you. Although, I try to remind to my OC that it’s me (Sqn SNCO) that has to manage the Cdt NCOs day to day. Ultimately, it’s about trust, hopefully if you’re in the position of Sqn SNCO then your OC should respect your opinion.

2 Likes
80

Our board is usually Sqn SNCO, plus two others, with at least one of those being in uniform.