Progressive Training Syllabus


Well, I’d hope so too.

Someone’s come up with a logical and structured badge system, and the shooting badges make no sense as regards that system.

There should be four badges, each that look the same except for being different colours. If we really must differentiate between weapon types, then change the badge to look like the relevant weapon (eg the badge would include an actual picture of an L98 for service rifle)


They weren’t very well received at a very recent conference for a wing’s WOs and SNCOs. We were hoping for more detail, but aparently it isn’t all ready and the badging policy has yet to be approved by the uniform comittee.


Rank amateurs or worse?

Why have they even thought about releasing this when it hasn’t been completely ratified?

Who exactly comes up with these ideas? What current and relevant experience of squadron life have they had in the last 2 years?

It does seem that consulting people who might know, us, has to become part of the process. I realise this notion is too much for some to contemplate as they don’t like being expected to think for themselves and like being told how, when, where and why, but if they did consult us then they’d get something that would work first time and not like we seem to get. Interestingly the current govt is trying to formalise the workers role in decision making processes in the workplace. Would this fit in the military model that we like to think we’re part of?

So when do we tell cadets about all of this?
Is the ‘infrastructure’ in place? Rhetorical question

On the poster why the fixation on ages? Is it a smoke and mirrors exercise to give the illusion of progression? Ages are largely irrelevant and have become increasingly so over the years. The old system of classification and age and rank seemed to work for years and we should just go back to this. I get cadets join at anything up to 15 and the odd one at 16, so are they eligible for the age related things? Or do they have to start at the 12+, a bit like doing 1st Class, Leading, Senior, Staff 1 and then Staff 2?


The age based ideal of the poster is aimed at the cadets not the staff, by putting it on the wall they are aware themselves of the oppourtunities and what is open to them.

A lot of Squadrons just do the activities that they have always done and don’t put cadets forward for other things as the staff are either a) too busy or b) dismissive of different things. If the cadets are coming to the office and showing an interest in other things they are more likely to get those opportunities.

It might also help with retention of the younger ones who can’t do as much because instead of going “I’m bored” they might be thinking “I’m a bit bored with this but I can be L98 trained in 3 months”


The poster (HQAC Produced) does say that you are not limited to just your age but any for your age and below.

I would of liked some guidance to have been issued with the poster, but seeing as it hasn’t made its way to my wing yet and I’m only seeing it across Social Media and some SP Sites i’ll wait and see.

Still someone managed to miss QAIC off…


Good point, is Junior Losers in their?


I still don’t understand the rationale. When I was a cadet we went along, did what we did, it was much more social than anything else, the occasional and I mean occasional activities were done. There was no over riding expectation that we will / would have done x by y. People left and people stayed it was the way it was and has been for years. My observations are that the cadets that leave are the ones who never do anything regardless of what gets put on the board and these are ones that don’t get involved socially. I’ve seen youngsters come in who I’d give 6 months tops and stayed for years and even become staff and others who you think they’ll go far and before you know where you are they’ve left. I don’t think a poster like this will make any difference whatsoever. The old style posters never made any difference either. The extant problem is HQAC don’t really understand cadets and the badge thing, amplifies this.

Young people don’t join the ATC with the expectation of getting some badges, doing shooting, first aid or FMS and all the other nonsense which they can get with the Army Cadets or Scouts. I had 5 cadets go to camp this year and the standout activity was flying, the first for all of them, and the primary reason they went to camp. I know this as I asked them what they were looking forward to at camp and they all said flying, the only other thing that there was any interest was high ropes. Even their parents said they were most excited about going flying and understood they had to do the other bits. I joined the ATC 41 years ago because of the general interest in flight and a chance to fly. I did other things, but the main things that stick in my mind is flying in Hercs, Pumas, Sea Kings, Chippies and 5 AEFs Husky. There are other things but are more ‘pull up a sand bag’ when I see old cadet mates.

I don’t think it’s a matter of putting cadets forward, the cadets need to want to do it and that’s where it falls down. I am constantly amazed at what the youngsters who join the Corps do as well and how they fit it all in is a mystery. Plus unless a cadet is actively involved in the whole squadron, I wouldn’t put them forward even if they wanted to do it and be quite explicit as to why not. I’ve never liked ‘takers’, if you want the cherry you have to eat the cake. I had a cadet transfer because of this and when they moved I told the receiving OC what had happened and they left the Corps not long after moving, as the receiving OC briefed them on their expectations when they went there.

I ensure notices are put up and it’s then down to the cadets to speak up, they are told this from day one. We are meant to provide training for life and at work you need to pipe up if there is something you want to do, if you were to wait for your manager or supervisor to suggest it, you could get very old.


Surely your own last paragraph explains why thI poster is useful, it’s an extension of putting a notice up as it lets cadets know in advance what’s out there. It might get them to ask questions even if it’s just of their peers as to what things are so that when the notice goes up they know that it’s what they want to do.

It’s interesting that the things you remember from your Cadet career are all flying related as that’s not the same for everyone. I was at a get together this weekend where a lot of the participants (80%) were ex cadets or staff and we were talking about just this subject and for the majority of us it was the Adventure Training Camps, DofE Expeditions and big Squadron Camps that were the subjects of conversation, I don’t remember anyone talking about flying when we were swinging the lamp.

Could it be that you are flying when you do your recruitment based around your own abiding memories? This would lead to an expectation of flying being the big thing for your cadets. I know that when I do recruitment presentations I push all of the AT we do and the success we have in DofE which is probably me subconsciously doing the same thing, I have a lot of cadets who couldn’t give 2 stuffs about flying but who are mad for mountain biking & climbing which is the way I was by age 16, I did my GS and never flew again. (Until recently when I got a Merlin flight :grinning:)


Well which one do you want?


The old poster has been up in various guises over the years and no one looked at. This might pique interest initially, but after a while nothing.

When I get together with old mates it’s the sort of things you menition, but it needs someone else to fire the memory. But flying is what we should be about primarily, but then I’m a bit old school.

The main problem wrt offering lots of things is staffing, with qualifications and or being able to accompany cadets and then as we have to do things with other squadrons, this then becomes more problematic.

When I think back to my cadet days I don’t remember doing things as much as we seem to, today, even in my early staff days there wasn’t the courses etc and need to do things. Probably why it was more enjoyable. It must be hell for ‘young’ staff with young children and juggling everything the ATC demands around their lives. Might explain why we lose staff more readily than attract them, unless they have been cadets.


Both. Consult with ALL staff, get a consensus and then ratify. Easy peasy.

Releasing this when it’s not ready is pointless, even more so when it would seem some people have said it is merde and it would appear 01 JAN 17 is the go date. Consulting would make life so much easier all round, even if it extends the process, as it is quite apparent the people paid to make decisions know the square root of sod all about the ATC.


Are we sure that it’s the final version?


What is the point of issuing it then?

You don’t issue a policy, get people trying to use it and then change it (several times) … oh I forgot that the SOP for HQAC.

If this wasn’t the final version it should have a watermark like ‘draft’ or ‘proposal’ or ‘consultative only’.


Junior Leaders is on there.

My Wing has posted these out to Squadrons, recieved mine this morning. A3 poster, folded up small.



At the next SMS Upgrade (Delayed due to the SP Issues) will get SMS ready to go for the new Syllabus, rather than being 6 months late.

At least HQAC TG are talking to other departments at HQAC.

A little disappointing that so far all I have seen is a HQAC produced poster doing the rounds on Social Media, and now this.

Less than a month until launch and still no real information on how the new system looks. Good job we’re not looking at finalising the training programme for Q1 2017 for which this information would be really useful.

Despite being the worst kept secret in the ACO, still no official release of information about this change in training released to the volunteers expected to deliver it.


What are people’s thoughts on the parachute badge? At least some ‘blue’ skills recognition we can arrange for our cadets. Hopefully there’ll be enough places for a decent number of 16+ year old cadets to participate, or at least, provision for recognised/trusted partners to conduct training etc.


I think it is a waste of brassard space and money unless the availability of parachuting courses is about to sky-rocket.


Waste of time, last year they ran what 2 week long courses and 2 weekends, hardly a big enough activity to warrant a badge.


Unless I’ve miss read previous posts/ACPs, cadets get recognition for flying outside of the ACO. Could that potentially work for this? I do hope there isn’t anybody thinking they’ve just done Pegasus Coy.