Potential Volunteer - advice needed

Adult Staff The Staff Mess
1

Hello all

I am interested in joining the air cadets as an adult volunteer but can’t decide on which role to go for and/or if there is a possibility of holding both roles.

In 2007 I approached a VGS with the intention of becoming a CGI. They invited me to come and spend a day with them, which I did. At the end of the day I knew that I wanted to do the role and they also stated that they would be interested in taking me forward. They began to explain the time commitment and whilst the role was advertised (and still is) as being 2-3 days a month, they advised that the commitment was actually 5-6 days a month. Due to my job (working shifts), I was unable to commit to this and had to turn down the opportunity.

I knew I couldn’t commit to a regular week night commitment and didn’t want to short change the cadets. However, in 2011, my shifts improved and meant that I could commit to week nights. I expressed an interest with a local Sqn and was interviewed. The CO advised he would like to stream me as an officer once I had done my 6 months as a CI. I began helping out at the Sqn. I’m not sure if I was even classed as a CI as no paperwork was ever completed in the 6 months I was there. It was really frustrating as I was initially one of 10 adults at the Sqn (2 officers, 2 SNCO’s and 5 other CI’s) and there was nothing for me to do. A couple of months after attending, another adult joined and became a new CI. Like me, he had nothing to do either. I spent much of my 6 months twiddling my thumbs (except the odd occasions where I found something to do). All of the instruction was carried out by the Cadet NCO’s or Adult SNCO’s. The CI’s spent most of their time trying to find things to do. I asked if there was some learning I could be doing and was told that I couldn’t gain access to the systems until I had done my 6 months and then gone through my paperwork process which was estimated as taking a further 3 months. I left as I was bored and the thought of at least another 3 months of twiddling my thumbs was the final straw! Within a few months of me leaving, 2 CI’s and a SNCO left!

Since then I have been volunteering with other organisations . In 2014 I became a manager for a youth organisation and was responsible for the management of 7 Units, across a geographic location. The equivalent role in the air cadets would be that of Sector Commander.

I am due to move to the other side of the country and, with this in mind, I think I should give the air cadets another chance. I will have more weekends available (probably around 4 - 6 days per month) and the same amount of evenings. I would love to become a CGI but also wonder if I should use my management skills and look to go down the officer route (hopefully at a Sqn where I would have something to do). Any advice? Alternatively, is it possible to hold roles at both the VGS and at a Sqn?

2

It certainly is possible to do both - especially at the moment where there’s not much flying to be done!

As for the squadron choice, remember that you don’t have to join the first one you see - try the local ones and see which one suits you best and/or where you can best make a positive difference.

3

If you go down the CGI route (once they get the gliding fiasco sorted) you could if the OC VGS and Sqn agree attend a squadron as a secondary duty. I experienced one of these when I was a cadet and it was a bit of a flakey arrangement IMO.

As for some of the other points it looks like you were on a squadron which did it one way. What I will say in their defence getting new staff to a point where they can be ‘useful’ ie take a class or do other things is a job in itself, which unless someone has the time doesn’t happen as well as it should. The minimum is a DBS clearance, which in itself takes longer than it should as the Corps hasn’t kept up with the times.

In the good old days when I had new CIs start I would give them a the instructional technique handout, subject ACP and associated old exam papers and give them a couple of weeks before getting them in front of room of cadets. OK a bit ropey to start but eventually they would get the gist and develop their own lessons etc. In the ‘modern’ Corps there are no books and the things on ultilearn are, at best, variable in terms of quality for someone without prior knowledge. Without a proper book to work from it effectively comes down to individuals undertaking their own research (which would probably be online and we all know how that can go) and there are no old papers now (although the online exams largely use the same questions) to identify the key points to cover. Plus there are some who are overly anal about doing the method of instruction course which can add another x months to the process. Also unless logins are shared until you get your own number you can’t access anything other than email or sharepoint. Oh and if your Wing follows the process to the letter even getting a new CI started can be a bit of a task.

Overall it could be said the organisation is not as friendly as it used be to new people coming in.

4

[quote=“glass half empty 2” post=25451]Without a proper book to work from it effectively comes down to individuals undertaking their own research (which would probably be online and we all know how that can go) and there are no old papers now (although the online exams largely use the same questions) to identify the key points to cover. [/quote]Whilst I’d agree that the lack of a single, authoritative textbook for each subject is less than ideal, it’s not quite as bad as that.

At the very minimum, each subject has a full syllabus which (mostly - Mil AC Systems is a little ropey here) defines the subject matter to be covered, and you can use Ultilearn exams (via the generic sqn log-in to allow as many sittings as you need) to judge the difficulty of the questions.

Additionally, for many of the subjects the old textbooks are still mostly relevant - I’ve attached a PDF of what is used on my unit to inform instructors as to the relevance of the old books (if anyone wants any of the sqn-produced manuals, please let me know).

[attachment=235]MAR-2-100A-SqnSpecificTrainingProcedures.pdf[/attachment]

5

Thank you for your replies.

glass half empty 2 - I’d have been happy to do it your way as, whilst it may have been a little nerve wracking delivering a subject I wasn’t 100% sure of, at least I would have been doing something! If there was anything I was unsure of, i’d have sought clarification and addressed any points prior to the end of the evening.

I never felt part of the Sqn and always felt like a visitor who, despite being DV cleared and with DBS checks coming out of my ears, had to be ‘escorted’ as I couldn’t be left alone with the cadets. I can understand the need to have that level of protection, but what I couldn’t understand was why they couldn’t have started my DBS check from Day One! It costs nothing for the volunteer or the organisation!

I spoke with the ACF yesterday and they have said that if I come on board I would be allocated to a detachment and would then complete a number nights training with the training team. Following that I would then go on some weekend training courses…the names escape me (it was more initials than my brain could handle)! There was no waiting around for 6 months like I had with the air cadets. Obviously, my air cadet experience is now 4 years old…what is the process for air cadets now?

6

The simple answer is that most ATC sqns are a bit of a law unto themselves - ideally though, they should be getting clearances straight away and in the (fairly short - IIRC six weeks from submission to return?) of your DBS going through some basic induction stuff in the office and having you assist with instruction where possible, all the while under ‘supervision’.

It’s probably worth noting that to my knowledge all a supervisor actually needs is to have a DBS and BASIC - therefore it may be perfectly viable to just have an instructor cadet sit in on the lessons (hopefully in a constructive fashion as a sort of ‘teaching assistant’) whilst you get on with things.

The best bet is to have a chat to local units and see which OC seems the most switched-on and ready to get you involved!

As for the process; it will go:

OC interview (generally informal chat)
Wing Staff Officer interview to check suitability
Basic Staff Induction Course - now a 1 day course on child protection, etc

Then you’re a fully-fledged CI.

It may well be worth attending a methods of instruction course if you’re not that used to teaching too.

7

Thanks Matt.

It sounds much more professional than at my last attempt :slight_smile:

8

OTU, The ACF will swiftly grip hold of you and will train you to be useful as quickly as you let them. Induction courses and training are run constantly and it is delivered by 50% volunteers like yourself and 50% regular army personnel posted in to your local cadet training team. That model will change soon, but it mostly works now and you will get to Sgt in as little as 6-18 months dependent on your availability to attend the courses and once all the modules are completed. You will also be allowed to work unsupervised once a certain stage of the training is completed and signed off. We trust PIs and they are even allowed to attend specialist courses before being promoted to Sgt in certain circumstances.

The down side is that for the early part of your training you are unpaid and enrolled as a CA (civillian assistant) Once appointed PI, you have a JPA or Army number, an MOD90 and your on the payroll. Don’t ever do this for nothing, because every PTD unclaimed through a sense of altruism just results in another tiny little cut to the funding of the organisation, and if the money was to be done away with completely, we would lose a lot of people. Not because of the money, but because it would be another reason NOT to do it, and another reason to stay at home with your family/wife etc; The reasons not to do it are stacking up steadily anyway, such as work life balance, the fun police making activities dull and silly through ignorant and over bearing application of H&S bolleaux, the MODs mindless bureaucracy, and a few adult staff whose presence is toxic and need punching in the throat.

[center]Grrrrr :mad: [/center]

(If the good people leave, they win, and I’ve seen it destroy a Coy or even a Cty over time, and it’s hard work to rebuild them)

Having said all that, we do get a good deal. We get to do things with and for the kids that are unique and will give them a lifetime of memories, and I cannot think of one cadet that has been made worse a person for their experience in the cadet forces. Its also hilarious at times. And we get paid (albeit, mostly a pittance) for doing it.

Once a Sgt, you will be eligible for promotion to SSI once at least one of a list of specialist courses is completed and you have served 4 years, but the 4 year requirement can be waived for exceptional candidates. I actually did 4 of the 5 courses before I was promoted SSI because I wanted to do them, not for the promotion, and my county were slow to recognise my eligibility because I didn’t kiss CHQ ar**s!

Commissioning can happen at any time, but the ACF prefers you to spend a few years in the Sgts mess, perhaps rising to SSI before going on to commissioning. In fact there is little advantage to be had in commissioning and some distinct disadvantages. Virtually every course is open to SNCOs and Officers, and most Det Commanders (which is hands down the best job in the ACF) are still SNCOs or WO equivalents. Commissioning often means moving up to planning rather than running the fun activities but SNCOs get to do both. Most ACF officers only expect you to play the game in front of the cadets, and first name terms when not in earshot is perfectly acceptable and even desirable.

9

Err I thought this was a ATC website?

10

Actually it’s an air cadet website, not specific to the ATC.

And as the ACF process was mentioned above BOIS has simply outlined it. Not doing any harm so back in your box please.

11

ATC/ACO Splitting hairs imo. I doubt The ACF could have written better recruitment literature.r u thinking of jumping ship? Maybe same effort could be used for reasons for joining The Atc

12

If only!

Our focus at the moment is poaching uniformed staff to take a commission.

13

Well luckily in this instance your opinion isn’t relevant.

Please don’t use text talk, and please stick to the topic. Feel free to discuss further via PM though.

14

I believe I’ve touched a nerve! Imo I’m on topic in that imo u seem to be providing every reason to join ACF without the counter balance of the negatives or the positives and negatives of the ATC. Just saying

15

No, no nerve touched. I’m simply stating facts.

It’s down to an individual to decide which cadet force is for them. You’ll also notice a lack of negatives about being in the ACO, of which we know there are many. I’m trying to encourage a debate and not trying to discourage a useful post from BOIS, who has in the past not been quite as helpful shall we say :stuck_out_tongue:

16

Unless someone is a member of both at the same time it would be difficult for one person to do this.

17

I get a sense with the ACF that the initial staff training is done by a coy/county team most of whom aren’t doing day to day ACF det stuff.

In the ATC with the exception of ATF and weapons the majority of training is done by CFAV (many of who are on sqns), at the weekend who have had a crappy week at work, problems at home etc as everyone doing the course, as a result the ACF looks more structured.

What I have seen locally, staff in the ACF get moved around like pawns, which results from what I have seen to be a very disjointed det staffing and some disgruntled staff as they are seemingly left with little or choice.

18

As a side note, if I go into uniform, do I still need to buy my own CS95/MTP?

19

Sadly, the answer is yes. Ridiculously we’re expected to wear it for certain activities, but it’s not provided (and here is re-opened a can of worms!).

20

Sorry Papa November!

That was not my intention…I didn’t realise I would be opening a can of worms!