Hi, I was just wondering if ATC staff, more specifically CI’s are allowed to use exercise as a form of punishment. and if not does anyone have it in writing.
I would say depends on the activity and if it’s approved.
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It doesn’t need to be in writing. Punishment should be managed in accordance with the cadet code of conduct. It’s quite clear in ACP20. Exercise is a sport, not a punishment. I can’t believe people have to ask this question.
I would say that it’s bad practice.
Using drill as a punishment turns it into a negative activity that cadets shouldn’t enjoy doing. The same applies to physical activity.
There’s a big difference between pushing a willing cadet to try their hardest, and using it to punish someone who doesn’t want to participate. That said, I would expect cadets to participate in physical activity if it was part of a parade night (eg. sports) and if they were truly unwilling then I would expect them to go home, unless there was an acceptable excuse and a suitable alternative activity could be found.
it would depend on what was classed as the “crime” to warrant doing the “time”
if Smith is being a general disruptive self and a bit of a d1ck then yeh “Smith down and give me 5 pressups” / “run around the building”
beastings for a Cadet however isn’t really in-line with policy or the ethos of who the Air Cadets are
is fine. a quick example that the behaviour is not acceptable. i have seen both employed (with laps around a building increasing on repeat offences) and taken how it is meant.
personally i cannot see why there would be any difference in authority between VRT, SNCOs or CIs unless the acitivity was qualification specific which was held by one and not the other…but then it is the qualification that is in question not the “rank”
i am going to guess this is a situation that has already happened, the OP wasn’t happy with it and is now looking for evidence to show what happened is wrong?
I thought the NCO Course ACPS were quite clear that punishments are ordinarily limited to “extra duties” whatever that means.
I think that means the duty to do extra press ups and laps of the building.
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Thanks for all the responses to give a bit more detail, the member of staff in question often dishes out punishments of for example 40 star jumps in front of the whole squadron (which I think is unacceptable as it also demines the cadet involved). I was asking for a document to prove that the Pearson in question couldn’t, as I for one will not be accepting any of these punishments and if the argument goes higher then I would like some evidence. Thnx for the help.
[quote=“juliet mike” post=22071]I think that means the duty to do extra press ups and laps of the building.
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I think that stretches the meaning of ‘duty’ a little bit…
Circumstance and intention are everything.
For example if you turn up late to sport or another night with physical activities its fine to set them 20 star jumps and a run round the gym (that is a quick catch up warm up). Similarly being sent to run round or do other physical tasks during a physical activity is fine.
However what you describe doesn’t fit with that and I would agree that the CI (not because they are a CI) shouldn’t be doing that.
If this is something that is happening currently I think you should take up the issue with your Chain of Command now. Don’t wait for your turn to get star jumps to challenge this. Speak to your uniform staff, explain what happened, explain your concerns and how it isn’t appropriate because it is in response to xyz.
I have had a really quick look but haven’t found it explicitly stated about physical punishments but this from ACP4 covers demeaning behavour
From ACP 4 Chapter 2 Behaviour management 23. All children and young people have a right to be treated with respect and dignity even in those circumstances where they display difficult or challenging behaviour. The use of foul
language, degrading treatment, sarcasm, demeaning or insensitive comments towards cadets is not
acceptable in any situation. The use of corporal punishment is not acceptable and whilst there may
be a legal defence for parents who physically chastise their children, this does not extend, in any
circumstances, to those adults or cadets aged 18 and over who work with or on behalf of children
and young people. It is normally the behaviour that is not acceptable and not the cadet. Members
of staff and cadets aged 18 and over should therefore deal with the problem not the person; they
should be firm, fair and friendly, but not familiar. Further information may be found in Annex B to
Reference D. Adults and cadets are not permitted to use corporal punishment or any other
demeaning behaviour towards (other) cadets.
Does this peson have the required qualifications and/or experience to run physical training in line with ACP 28 ACTI 1?
Have they conducted a proper warm-up for the activity in line with the same ACTI?
Have they conducted a risk assessment for the activity in line with ACP 28 ACTI 11?
Is the cadet physically fit and consenting to the activity?
Using drill as a punisment is expressly forbidden (IN CAPITAL LETTERS) in the JNCO training manual (ACP 48) and I would put the use of physical training as a punishment firmly in the same category.
Its bang out of line. these are kids not hitler youth.
there are other avenues to go down for “punishment”.
The only time I would think any of this is (at a push, its a youth club not basic training) is MAYBE acceptable is aggressive rewarming in the field/relevant training. if cadets get cold sat around for lectures/general field work outside. BUT things should be in place before hand to minimise the need for this.
I tend to find that many cadets lack upper arm strength for shooting - the heaviest thing they lift these days is their mobile 'phone - does that mean that they can be given press ups for trg purposes? 
[quote=“Pamela” post=22077]I have had a really quick look but haven’t found it explicitly stated about physical punishments but this from ACP4 covers demeaning behavour
From ACP 4 Chapter 2 Behaviour management 23. All children and young people have a right to be treated with respect and dignity even in those circumstances where they display difficult or challenging behaviour. The use of foul
language, degrading treatment, sarcasm, demeaning or insensitive comments towards cadets is not
acceptable in any situation. The use of corporal punishment is not acceptable and whilst there may
be a legal defence for parents who physically chastise their children, this does not extend, in any
circumstances, to those adults or cadets aged 18 and over who work with or on behalf of children
and young people. It is normally the behaviour that is not acceptable and not the cadet. Members
of staff and cadets aged 18 and over should therefore deal with the problem not the person; they
should be firm, fair and friendly, but not familiar. Further information may be found in Annex B to
Reference D. Adults and cadets are not permitted to use corporal punishment or any other
demeaning behaviour towards (other) cadets. [/quote]Corporal punishment of course isn’t the same as exercise as punishment, but I think that you’ve spotted that.
It’s interesting about the demeaning bit though, as that’s rather open to interpretation - is punishing a cadet in front of their peers actually demeaning? I’d say that perhaps very deliberately making it so that they’re in front of other cadets could veer towards it, but I’m not sure that it’s supposed to mean that you’re supposed to hide them away for even the most minor punishment either.
[quote=“GOM” post=22079]Does this peson have the required qualifications and/or experience to run physical training in line with ACP 28 ACTI 1?
Have they conducted a proper warm-up for the activity in line with the same ACTI?
Have they conducted a risk assessment for the activity in line with ACP 28 ACTI 11?
Is the cadet physically fit and consenting to the activity?[/quote]
Arguably, as the ACP simply states competence then they’re probably OK with Q1. However, Q2 is a bit shaky, Q3 is highly unlikely and Q4 seals it - cadet’s can’t be forced to exercise IAW ACP28, as it has to be to a level that they’re comfortable with. In other words, cadets can refuse to do press-ups which would make them a fairly ineffective punishment.
At the end of the day, probably the best argument against is simply that the precise punishments that you can use are clearly laid down; so the pink tutu rule applies.
[quote=“MikeJenvey” post=22084]I tend to find that many cadets lack upper arm strength for shooting - the heaviest thing they lift these days is their mobile ‘phone - does that mean that they can be given press ups for trg purposes? :P[/quote]Yes - you can conduct basic physical training sessions within your competence; you can’t use weight other than the cadets’ own body weights but you’re OK with press-ups.
You aren’t actually aloud to give any form of “physical punishment” unless it is sports and you are a trained PTI. All your cadets are allowed to just refuse the punishment as he is not legally allowed to force a physical punishment, the issue is many cadets are scared to or aren’t aware they can. If it is becoming an issue have you tried going further up the chain? Please do ask if you have any other questions I’m just coming to the end of a long and exciting career in cadets and I’m glad to help in any way I can 
Thanks for your contribution, it is however incorrect as above.
[quote=“Weeman1268” post=23033]You aren’t actually aloud to give any form of “physical punishment” unless it is sports and you are a trained PTI. [/quote]Your status or the activity have nothing to do with it - you can’t give a physical punishment full-stop.
Let’s just fix that one, because it’s a common misconception. There is no rule which says “Only a PTI can give press-ups/phys as a punishment”.
We are not allowed to give physical punishments to cadets at all; no matter what PT qualifications someone may hold.
That is not to say however that someone can’t encourage some extra effort in a PT session within their competence.
Scenario 1 - Classroom lesson:
“You’re late for my lesson… Down and give me 50 press-ups!” = NO
Scenario 2 - PT Session:
“Come on now, push it for that last little bit. See if you can get 10 more press ups” = YES
Edit - Once again, beaten to it
Can Cadet Flight Sergeants give push ups as a punishment. What about people with muscle/joint problems?
Simply put, no. Regardless of ability, circumstances or history.
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Punishments such as PushUps, running- and other kind of activities- can be used as a punishment though drill and sport should never be pushed on a cadet as it appears as a punishment.