That is certainly the sort of nonsensical policy we would have, even if unintentionally.
Perhaps you could get around it by reinstating them as a cadet and then applying for staff as if they’d never left?
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Not within my gift as they weren’t ‘my’ cadet but a good idea none the less
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Volunteer at a CCF & then supernumerary them back?
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Oh, that I do like!
Not sure on your region but there is as mentioned ACP 20 then there is the RC’s interpretation of ACP 20 of “argh” give a person a bit of responsibility that might end up on my desk so they will only “promote” the best of the best through the uniformed route. Although CI’s could be doing the same thing on sqn. The policy should have been a simple Age 18 is the line drawn end of. 3 options, leave, enter as CI or become an uniformed A/SGT (Probationary SGT or similar) type of rank for 2 years (similar to the ACF model) age 20 then either go “full SGT” or commission. This would scrap staff cadet and the complications that has and give CFAV (ex cadets) a 2 year period of courses - you could even blend something from RAFAC command and Leadership school at Cranwell to run a course, alongside shadowing CFAV.
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This has the significant benefits of simplicity and clarity.
I would personally prefer cadets to be allowed to until the end of the school year they turn 18, subject to DBS and the safeguarding module.
But then as you suggest.
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This is somewhat counter-intuitive for me in allowing late-teens to wear SNCO rank, but considering them too young to be officer cadets or acting pilot officers.
Personally, I think two years wearing white tabs and with a neutral rank akin to ‘officer cadet’ but without the implication they will commission (I would say ‘instructor cadet’ if hadn’t already been used). After the two years of training they are then streamed for CFC, CF SNCO, or SME (CI). Obviously, those with the prerequisite experience would bypass the probation and resume their SNCO / officer status (as is the case now).
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Careful. You are coming up with good ideas here, that will never do!!!
I get where you are coming from.
But the law of unintended consequences would kick in and that 2 year white tabs for 18 year olds would no doubt end up applying to everyone…
Being encouraged to choose between CFC, SNCO, or CI after two years might be a good thing. Many people start out as CIs and take longer than two years to get into uniform.
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For me I just don’t get the need for staff cadet, as in the 18-20 gap and the “tier system”
The vast majority of our Gold/“elite corp camps” are for 16+ when you get to 18, if you are staying on in the corps you should be trusted to be able to look after the safeguarding, health & safety and Wellbeing as if you were 20, providing you are given the right training. Plus you will still get the opportunities of camps, additional courses (potentially higher learning courses that are open to CFAV)
Agreed brand new to the org then min age is 20 however if reached 18 with clearances then could CWO (to be clear Cadet Warrant Officer) be our “privileged young person rank” go back to the drawing board with ACP 20. CWO’s technically belong to the Wing in any case although usually don’t stray too far from their home squadron. Still have a Wing board for approval to take rank at 18 after applying at 17.5months with a focus around ACPs 4 & 5
When I was a cadet, CWOs could stay in until they were 22, run activities (including range days), draw weapons, and many commissioned direct to plot officer before aging out.
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100% the CWO rank now is a bit watered down from previous, when you get to 18 as a staff cadet (even if no rank) you have to do the standard mandatory training however a rank carrying cadet responsibility and was something to aim for. You used to and probably still get the promotions for camps usually at the lower ranks or promotions just before leaving to “look good”, during my time in the corps I have not openly but disagreed with some of the F/Sgt promotions when the OC was well aware they were aging out in a few months, they leave the corps as a Cdt F/Sgt in the grand scheme of things it doesn’t do anything and really mean anything but a CWO rank which brings with it a development package could be the answer. There is no confusion, we are a 12-18 year old youth organisation with some that are deemed suitable promoted to CWO until aged 20 when they can leave or join as CFAV. When joining the org as CFAV if not a CWO you join from 20.
I support not having a cadet rank which is only really attainable for most of they don’t leave for university etc, but I also think we have a problem of “dead man’s shoes” with cadets naturally aiming to get CWO a year earlier (arguably still problematic as we’ve attached an age to it, which means people who joined in the same school year can become eligible up to a school year apart). Could now be 3 years holding the highest and limited rank.
Something like a probationary pre-uniform (but in uniform) rank could work very well while people spend up to two years learning the ropes.
My former unit, which had Army specialists in, had special rank slides essentially for this purpose — get them in uniform but mark them out as different, without then having everyone shout at them for getting stuff wrong but acknowledging they had certain professional gravitas.
Could easily do a blue version of that with plt off braid for “under officer” for both new-joiners and O18s selected for uniform CFAV, prior to streaming…
Under officer use to be quite common in the CCF & still exists in ACF world.
In CCF World only the head of section would be CWO with the exception being maybe an additional one if you had an RAF cadet doing the contingent cdt RSM role.
This is wider than this post but perhaps it would make sense to link to school years. Similar to how you can’t join inter you are 12 & in year 8, you can be promoted/appoint to CWO until 17 & year 13 or become staff until 18 & left full time education.
This looks like sub sub lieutenant RN, like a half stripe with curl. Interesting concept
As was so often the case, Wilf San wrote the definitive post on this some years back:
And yes the PI rank exists in the ACF (not sure about SCC).
My concern as above is it could be used to add another hoop to jump through - everyone could end up be made to do 2 years as a PI, not just those under 20. Whereas we want to onboard staff more quickly, not add more barriers.
This is an Army JUO rank slide, No reason we couldn’t just…
Nick it
Not sure if anyone else saw this but in Laser they have authorised newly appointed/promoted CWO/CFAVs to wear their rank as soon as it’s approved by the WgCdr or RC rather than waiting for official JPA/BADER updates by HQAC. A little bit of goodwill for a few weeks might go a long way
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The beauty of this being that to a cadet it feels like a promotion and to everyone else it gets them into uniform quicker (without having to call them probationary etc).
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