Hello,
I am approaching the time where I should begin having a conversation about what happens when I reach 18. I was wondering what are my options and what are the benefit of each. I’ve read the IBM but it wasn’t exactly clear.
TIA
Stay a Cadet
Become CI/SNCO/Officer
At 18 you also have options like UAS, if going to certain universities, and the Reserves.
Ànd free life.
And it’s done in conjunction with your Squadron
So have an idea on what you want to do, but go in for a prepared a discussion
Slight tweak.
And be out of post 16 education.
I can say fairly confidently that unless you are an exceptional CFAV candidate (not the same as being an exceptional cadet) then you can realistically restrict your options to:
-
Remain a cadet
-
Become a CI
I genuinely think this is realistic even for the very high flyers until you hit 20.
Make your choice based on how much you can get out of this as a cadet vs how much you’d like to start transitioning to being seen as an adult and providing the experience for the benefit of others.
Also, genuinely consider the above choices of UAS or reserves (and you can become a service instructor — that’s what I was doing until I was asked to step in as the sqn boss).
If you’re anywhere near RAF Woodvale I’ll happily show you around our unit (611 (West Lancs) Sqn RAuxAF) and talk to you about reserve life if you reach out formally.
2 Likes
I’ve been told SIs have to be 20 (but I can’t find a reference of course)
I don’t know if it’s changed, but I was an SI at 17 (before leaving due to injury then I couldn’t join as staff as I was 19, so ended up civ com before becoming CI at 20)
We’ve had an SI below age 20.
1 Like
What makes an exceptional CFAV candidate?
It’s less about cadet experience & more about life experience & got life sorted & reasonably independent of parents.
So can drive, regular job with a bit of technicality/responsibility to it & have interests/hobbies outside of the ATC.
But you can always join the other cadet forces as a uniformed CFAV at 18 as a SCC PO or ACF SI for a little while then come back with the experience.
I think you could even supernumerary back to the ATC whilst a CFAV in SCC or ACF back it’s a little complicated but it should count towards time in rank.
1 Like
This is exactly it, in my opinion.
If you still live at home and you’ve haven’t done anything since leaving school, I don’t think you’d be accepted into uniform.
If you have significant experience from somewhere else (let’s say you’re already an adult volunteer for another youth org or your a volunteer paramedic with SJA, or you’re a Special Constable) then I think that sort of thing would demonstrate what they’re currently looking for.
If not, time as a CI allows you to start gaining that experience but with less pressure and expectation (and fewer hoops to jump through, both in terms of selection and training and development).
That’s my best interpretation of the current rules. I wouldn’t claim to know for sure. I say this knowing of an excellent cadet who actually comes close to meeting some of that above life experience criteria, but wasn’t offered a uniformed role while under 20.
Once you’ve decided you’d like to become staff, I’d strongly encourage you to go CI. By that point, I don’t think whether or not you’re in uniform should matter, and time as a CI will start giving you that experience to apply for uniform.
1 Like
I think we disagree here substantially 
I’d expect the average 18 year old to still live at home and have little work experience. They will still be at, or have just finished, their A-Levels. I don’t think this should be a limiting factor in going into uniform, especially as an SNCO. If they are an ex cadet who’s already an SNCO, they will have some good leadership experiance already from us.
Someone still living at home is also pretty irrelevant. I know some people who have moved out and spend most of their day lounging around the house doing F all. I also know people still living at home who are working professionals with managerial positions. I sort of come into the latter.
I think this is exactly what the Sgt rank is for, though, especially with the white tabs during their probation. We shouldn’t be expecting people to already be great leaders and youth workers at the time of their appointment. They have a year of probation to learn the ropes. Then many years to improve!
If I see a probationary Sgt, I have little expectation of abilities, and will always offer to help where I can with any questions they might have.
1 Like
The living at home bit varies considerably between individuals & I concur it shouldn’t be a factor in someone going into uniform - however the other aspects still stand.
Agree with the second bit not with the first.
There is nothing wrong in a CI taking on tasks & responsibilities that develop them & allow them to transition easily into uniform. Indeed many are adjs or training officers (& a couple OCs for a short while)
The white tabs on the Sgt are to show that that they are new to the uniform so their drill & uniform & understanding of the military aspects may not be there. The understanding of policy should be in place even if the implementation may not be.
1 Like
Why though? You can be appointed as a Sgt (Probationer) directly off the street with no RAFAC or military experience.
To quote ACP 20:
SNCOs may also be appointed as direct entrants and it is not necessary for an applicant to have previously served in any capacity before their appointment. Initial appointments will be in the rank of Sgt or Sgt Aircrew on a VGS - on probation for the first year.
1 Like
Seconded
because this:
annoys me
As soon as the Sgt rank came about it was seen as a “training rank” - this lumped in those who didn’t know if uniform was right for them, in with those Sgts who were exceptional, driven, enthusiastic and everyone knew would go far.
it gave the impression the rank of Sgt shouldn’t be trusted as they are only “trying it out” and meant some Sgts were not taken seriously as some CFAVs didn’t see the individual, but the three stripes and only saw “in training” - this is harsh on a former CWO with full brassard having taken that same Cadet approach into the role of Sgt and has 3.5 years experience given they are lumped in with a parent of a Cadet with no prior Cadet or military experience and have barely 3.5 months of experience in Uniform.
While I understand the approach (Sgt is the lowest rank and the “starting point” on the Uniform ladder (which isn’t necessarily true as some start at Plt Off)) it suggests all Sgts are incapable as they are “in training”.
certain while in probation/white tab stage yes - but once “qualified” then they should have met the minimum standards and should be considered “capable” (not necessarily experienced, but competent).
while i cannot disagree with the policy, does it happen? in reality?
given the experience of some on these boards, it takes 4-6 months or more in some cases to be appointed as a CI - some give up based on the delays it takes to be appointed.
so to get a Wing to agree to directly entry Sgt will likely only increase the delay in being appointed.
(the only times I have known direct entry is for a former SNCO regular, who was promoted to FS after their probation period)
Living at home - none of our business. People are living at home much longer now due to housing costs.
Able to drive - potentially discriminatory (on disability grounds possibly) and if it means ‘owning a car’ it’s skewed towards those who can afford it.
Also why would it be ok for the SCC or ACF to take an ex ATC cadet and ‘train them up’ at 18, including wearing a uniform, but not for the ATC?
All seems a bit muddled.
3 Likes
I think CI is probably the best starting point for most people wanting to become CFAVs. It offers the most flexibility to figure out what level of commitment you want to give and responsibility you want to hold. It also doesn’t really sacrifice anything in terms of what you can do.
I don’t disagree
But there’s little in the way of structured training for a CI. So a lot of new CIs are just left to find their own way or spend a year making tea.
Something more formalised, along the lines of the ACF training for new instructors, is the way to go.
But we might need to split into uniform and non uniform streams so that CIs who want to stay that way (say as specialists) are still developed.
The issue from what I see is we as an organisation confuse the appointment of CI with a (pre uniform) training rank. They’re different things.
6 Likes
I certainly agree with you on the training element. But I also think most of the training they need can be done on squadron, it doesn’t necessarily need to be formalised, although that would be beneficial.
I don’t know about CI being viewed as a “pre-uniform” training rank, I can believe that it happens though. There’s no reason we can’t also use it as that though for people who want to or are considering going into uniform.