I think CI is probably the best starting point for most people wanting to become CFAVs. It offers the most flexibility to figure out what level of commitment you want to give and responsibility you want to hold. It also doesn’t really sacrifice anything in terms of what you can do.
I don’t disagree
But there’s little in the way of structured training for a CI. So a lot of new CIs are just left to find their own way or spend a year making tea.
Something more formalised, along the lines of the ACF training for new instructors, is the way to go.
But we might need to split into uniform and non uniform streams so that CIs who want to stay that way (say as specialists) are still developed.
The issue from what I see is we as an organisation confuse the appointment of CI with a (pre uniform) training rank. They’re different things.
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I certainly agree with you on the training element. But I also think most of the training they need can be done on squadron, it doesn’t necessarily need to be formalised, although that would be beneficial.
I don’t know about CI being viewed as a “pre-uniform” training rank, I can believe that it happens though. There’s no reason we can’t also use it as that though for people who want to or are considering going into uniform.
Usually just the AVIP unless a CI wants to go on a pre uniform course, or get a specialist qual.
I’m sure something could and probably should be done on squadron, I think the ACF is moatly at detachment or company level.
This million times over.
As a uniformed organisation we should be putting our new staff into uniform. Isn’t that the whole point of the white tabs. You are new to the organisation and under probation. You get a little slack. Cadets at 18 to 20 should go straight into staff uniform if they want it. Our parent organisation trusts 18 year olds to go into dangerous places and do dangerous and heroic things but the RAFAC seem unwilling to trust our brightest and best and sometimes not our brightest and best but the ones who do not join up or do not go away to university but get a solid job locally and want to put something back into their community as a uniformed CFAV.
The way that the RAF treats it 18 to 21 years olds is somewhat confused. If you join the UAS you have all of the benefits and responsibilities that entails. If you are in the RAFAC as a cadet you are treated like a child. If you then want to become a CFAV than you are told that you are not mature enough to go into uniform, you need to spend a few years of “growing up” and then we may consider you for a blue suit.
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We do appear to be going over 5 year old ground, much of which is covered in Should CIs be an option for New Staff
I’ve also said before, that if you are good enough to be a CFAV then you should be entirely acceptable to the organisation as an SNCO or CI, I can slightly allow a higher bar for Officers, but our direct entry options should be the same baseline standard, with the differences being expectations in terms of uniform and time commitments.
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i would suggest the same is true for a uniform position. short of the mandatory week at Cranwell upon appointment, a fresh out the Box Sgt or Plt Off has no training after this week lined up and is left up to themselves.
The “basics” of being a CFAV like using BADER and where to find policy etc are not taught at Cranwell - this is “picked up” prior by shadowing someone else at Squadron or simply being shown/taught.
absolutely.
while i appreciate the role of a CI is “casual” there is no “minimum” expectation of what they are capable of - some will have a ML ticket and be capable of leading a group up Ben Nevis for a camp over, while CIs limit themselves to making the tea for the rest of the Staff.
it shouldn’t need to be much but a “basic” tick box of competence would be nice to see for all CFAVs, those in uniform and CIs
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Let me bring the thread back to its original point.
Admittedly, the specific options have changed since I departed the Corps last year. However the premise is still basically the same.
If you feel you still have much to gain from being a cadet, and don’t mind a few extra responsibilities whilst gaining them from helping younger cadets, then stay a cadet.
If you feel like you’re sufficiently experienced and competent in both cadet matters but with significant life experience too and can guide, coach and mentor other people as well as lead them, then consider becoming a staff member. My recommendation is always to be non-uniformed first, even with cadet experience, because your role changes dramatically from cadet to staff.
If neither of the above options ring true, then consider whether your needs would be best served by leaving the cadets. At 18, you can apply to join the regular Armed Forces if you want, but other opportunities such as travel, internships & apprenticeships and other forms of volunteering also become available. Depending on what you want from life, these experiences could really help you develop a stand-out CV at a young age. (Note: for some of these experiences, they’re not necessarily exclusionary of remaining involved in the cadets too - but naturally some are).
Whatever decision you make is ultimately yours and needs to fit your needs. We’re all happy to provide some input here, but you probably already know what you want/need to do.
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Although you can read as many IBN’s as you like ultimately the decision lies with you the individual. At 18 if you want to stay part of the corps you can, however don’t leave it too late, at least get staff cadet and your papers in, at 17.5 to allow DBS checks etc to be done, that way you can still enjoy what is left of your “cadet career” without getting suspended due to no DBS.
From seeing things in different parts of the corps, CFAV at 18 varies a lot (I know it shouldn’t) depending on which region you report into. Most RC’s are wary of the new process and only want the best of the very best. You have to remember we are “Safeguarding and health and safety CFAV’s for primarily for children with some 18-20s and other staff under our command” not regular officers, SNCOs and CI’s.
Although there is that argument of “you can join as an officer in the RAF at 18” usually crops up, with that, you then have to pass selection tests and “proper” interviews and if you do all of that you have your 24 weeks phase 1 at Cranwell followed by your phase 2 training depending where you are going. Which you wont be 18 by the end of it and ultimately how much safeguarding of children do most RAF regular officers do.
As a cadet if you really want to stay in uniform personally I would say stay as a cadet, (staff cadet) you can always apply for uniformed CFAV before aging out in any case. If you wanted the more relaxed approach to the squadron, there isn’t anything wrong with being a CI and going down that route however it depends how much you enjoy “getting your drill on”
I was an SI at 18. In hindsight, I was too young.
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Same and same.
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Hi there, it’s been about 2 weeks since the last response, and I’m not sure what the unwritten rules on posting in inactive threads are here, but I thought I’d put in my twopence.
I transitioned from Sgt to CI at 18 - my birthday is September, so I was likely one of the first. I’ve seen lots of people in this thread say you need loads of “life experience” and whatnot, but I don’t think that’s required to make a good CFAV. I’ve seen it first-hand: I have more responsibilities than some staff on my unit who’ve served in the regular RAF. I believe life experience becomes more prominent when recruiting people off the street, hence the age requirement for external applicants still being 20.
I’d say that the qualities of someone wanting to transition from cadet to staff would be maturity, outstanding RAFAC knowledge, motivation, leadership skills and an understanding that cadets aren’t your friends anymore. If you’ve got that, go ahead! I like to say that they’ll appoint 18 year olds, but not the average 18 year old.
If you’ve got any questions about the process, I’d be happy to answer!
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I agree with what you’re saying.
Why did you go CI and not uniform?
From what I understand, the very high standard (and how that may be interpreted) is being demanded of under-18 uniformed CFAV. That was the bit I originally tried to highlight (perhaps clumsily).
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Wanted to offer an insight myself as someone who left and rejoined after a few years - I’m glad to see there are some more options for next steps post-18, as unfortunately I didn’t really have that when I left. (For context: left at 18 to go to uni, rejoined at 23 as a CI, just gone back into uniform as Sgt as of ~Feb 25)
I have some of my cadets who are also looking to go into the process of thinking about their plans for post-18, and it’s meant a lot of discussions about that IBN. For me, I probably would have loved the chance to stay on as either uniformed CFAV (whether that be SNCO or Officer), or gone into a CI role, but I think the main fear was leaving the Sqn I was at at that point, and effectively starting afresh at a new Sqn. (Thankfully, with the time I spent away from the Sqn at university, I put enough of a distance between myself and the current cohort where only two of the NCOs there at the time would have had the overlap between my cohort and theirs, so I was effectively able to start anew and relearn everything.)
I would agree with the notion of “life experience” and not really needing it - if you’ve pushed yourself out there in your Sqn activities, done various courses and put yourself forward for things you may not enjoy, then what’s to say that’s not “life experience” enough with the Cadet experience? In my eyes, someone who’s put themselves forward for various camps, attended the necessary courses and has a skillset and the enthusiasm that can work for x Squadron would be a suitable choice to transfer as a CFAV…but then again, I’m only an SNCO so I don’t really hold any dice in making those decisions 
One thing you would have to remember is that if you were to go in as uniformed or even as a CI, you would probably be asked to start at a different Sqn. Going back to my point earlier on that, you really need to make sure that you would be okay with doing so, as it would effectively be like starting afresh where you may not know the staff or cadets on the Sqn.
Overall, if it’s something you’re considering, I’d definitely have a chat with your Sqn Staff as a starting point: get to know what they do in their roles, how they operate, and have a think about where you could fit in - whether it’s as a member of staff, or continuing as a Staff Cadet until 20.
Best of luck!
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Sorry to revive the thread again but
I am looking for a clear definitive answer on whether someone can become a CFAV aged 18. (Or the case I am looking at ‘under 20’)
I am getting different answers namely
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no unless they are currently a cadet
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no unless they are currently a cadet or a recent ex cadet (Sgt or above)
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yes but only as a CI
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yes but if they are an ex cadet they have to move squadrons until 20
Ideally I’d like a link to a policy document but realise I might be setting my hopes too high!
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ACP 20 is the policy you are looking for. There are separate policy areas for CI, SNCO or Officer.
To become CFAV whilst 18 or 19, you need to currently be a cadet and go from cadet to CFAV. At least that is how ACP 20 is worded.
The CI policy is this:
The SNCO policy is this:
The CFC is policy is this:
It’s honestly all a bit of a mess. The three sections are in no standard format so hard to differentiate. The CFC bit mentions encouraging CI applications, which it doesn’t say elsewhere.
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Thank you - I am trying to clarify some quite specific details and SharePoint is being SharePoint,
From what you have posted it reads as if an ex-cadet (ie left at 18 or older) would be a direct entrant and not allowed to join until 20.
Off to the ACF they go then 
That’s how I ended up in the ACF at 18.
From what I have just read, that would certainly be the case. But I would push and support an application from a 19 year old who maybe stopped attending because of A-Levels and is rejoining. Can’t hurt to ask.
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That is certainly the sort of nonsensical policy we would have, even if unintentionally.
Perhaps you could get around it by reinstating them as a cadet and then applying for staff as if they’d never left?
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