Olive green bergen for RAFAC and DofE

Everyone Uniform and Drill
21

Osprey are a step above Berghaus as far as allyness saving lives.

Edit: also very good kit generally.

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22

Yeah Osprey is a bit high speed, low drag, while Berghaus is built like a tank.

That’s not a bad think by the way - loads of people who were spending 6 months walking through the Hindu Kush in 2002 were carrying 10+yo Berghaus rucksacks. It’s simply a different design philosophy. You, as the luck customer, simply get to chose which one you prefer.

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23

Allyness aside, are they decent for fieldcraft. I know they’re excellent for civvi hiking though.

24

No (at least not in my experience). But you won’t be using a 90L pack for Fieldcraft in any case. ATC cadets are limited to a day sack.

I’d go for a used PRI 45 litre or something of that type for Fieldcraft - look to spend £50 or so — and put more money into the DofE kit.

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25

For a cadet, I’d say that a 45 would be far too big for a daysack - 35 would be far more appropriate. That’s night enough for everything a cadet will need for 16+ hours out on the hill in grim weather, as well as being small enough for just a day at your local range.

I’d certainly suggest 70+ for a multi-day trip. Personally I like to use a big rucksack so I can stuff everything in without having squeezing everything into tiny, fiddly compression sacks in the rain. It can a) be sorted out later when it’s dry, and b) be squashed down with the compression straps.

The old Berghaus Roc bergans were brilliant for that - a very generous 70+litres, that could be easily reduced to the size of a Munroif needed.

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26

That’s why I like the older PRI / issued infantry day sack, it can synch down really small using the side zips if need be. But it has the space for a sleeping bag. Newer stuff or the ACF ‘daysack’ which IIRC is rated at 50L is a lot bulkier.

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27

Agree with this approach, small light pack for fieldcraft and something more comfortable and capable for AT.

28

Yes right now I’ll probably stick to my 45l mountain warehouse bag which is extremely lightweight and in the future maybe get another daysack like a PRI 45l or Karrimor SF sabre 30.

If I were to do a multi day fieldcraft excercise, would that osprey kestrel 68 that is further up the thread work?

Or should I get a berghaus of sorts too?

29

Under current ATC regs you don’t deploy or march with a bergan. Overnight kit is carried by staff to the harbour area or wherever you are staying overnight. So any large enough rucksack or even a duffle or holdall is Ok. Your current rucksack will probably be fine. You don’t want your expensive / Gucci kit being chucked in and out of a minibus by others. And remember you are splitting kit between your overnight bag, daysack and webbing.

The Kestrel is beyond what we would allow as a daysack for Fieldcraft, size wise, but is ideal for DofE, and other trips away. But do go to a store and try it out!

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30

I think the Osprey would be fine* for DofE. It’s a good, well regarded, endlessly reviews backpacking rucksack.

It would carry what you need for DofE happily, and for the time you’d need to carry it for - something like a Vulcan is for 7/10+ days of long haul slogging.

  • by fine I don’t mean fine, I mean really good. This is a pack people carry for months on backpacking holidays.
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31

Thanks. I only chose that opsrey because it is a similar price to other bags, like vango, but I’d be willing to spend a couple extra pounds, based on the knowledge that it is excellent.

Ps
Out of cursiosity would you say that the berghaus vulcan, cyclops etc would be better than a similar capacity osprey for a long exped?

Thanks

32

Impossible to say, it’s simply about fit.

It might last longer - based on having 30yo Berghaus rucksacks that are still in good nick - but I haven’t tried a 30yo Osprey, so I can’t judge…

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33

Osprey has a really good warranty, it is one of their selling points.

Personal view, their bags are a bit ‘fussy’, lots of small pockets and compartments, but that is in part because I grew up with bags where you chuck everything in and hope you can find it later. If it suits you then you won’t go wrong with them.

Military kit, like the current issue Virtus, copies ideas from civvy bags like a separate sleeping bag compartment.

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34

I’ll answer that one. If I remember, Berghaus Vulcan weighs in at 3kg empty. Osprey is 1.5kg empty. And dry. When it rains, from experience, both get heavier - Berghaus (unless routinely treated) more so than Osprey. However, Osprey include a rucksack cover… Berghaus don’t.

But. That heavier fabric with the Vulcan makes it more durable, robust and resilient. It has squaddie friendly zips and clips - which take a lot more abuse than Ospreys offerings.

Whilst Osprey offer far better customer services when things do go wrong, it won’t help you on day 3 of your Gold DofE when an exterior zip haemorrhages and spews forth the contents of your rucksack.

You need to weigh up those things and how much they mean to you. 1.5kg extra doesn’t sound like a lot. But when you’re aiming to carrying no more than 25% of your own body weight, it can be a little bit extra.

Another thing to consider is your age and dimensions. If you’re thinking long term, but haven’t finished growing, you need to consider which gives you the most flexibility in terms of longevity for you and your fit.

Don’t buy it online. Get along to an outdoor store and try them on. Get the store to add sandbags and weights to 25% of your body weight and see how they feel. Cinch them up so the load is carried close to you body. Jump around. See how it feels. If it’s gopping, rubs or presses awkwardly, walk away. If it feels like you’re slipping on a jacket, keep it.

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35

Hi all,

Just a quick one: are berghaus bergens PLCE for the roketpaks?

Thanks

36

Depends on the age. The older style did match - not least because the PLCE Bergen is a direct rip off of the original Crusader - but Berghaus got the hump, and turned the zips around.

So this one will, something you buy brand new, won’t.

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37

Would, by logic, the old olive green infantry bergens be good as they were made by berghaus?

Thanks

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38

The proper issue ones weren’t made by Berghaus and have no adjustable back system and very little padding. Not comfy for D of E, I threw mine away a couple of weeks back. Fine for throwing kit in and then having it transported to a harbour.

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39

We’ve kept ours for that reason - we don’t let cadets wear them but they’re handy for putting kit on in the back of the minibus.

40

If you mean the original, green PLCE Bergens then no - Berghaus did make a limited production run (and yes, I’ve seen early OG PLCE Bergens with Berghaus production labels in them), but MOD and Berghaus were already in a dispute over the copyright of the Berghaus Crusader and PLCE Bergen, as well as the price that Berghaus wanted to produce them at.

This initial arrangement didn’t last long - few months? - and thee MOD got a new manufacturer.

A 30yo PLCE Bergen is, assuming it’s survived 30 years of squaddie handling, likely to be pretty solid. I’d still choose a Berghaus sack though, because it will be lighter/more comfortable.